Marine Law, IC or OOC?

[Pigeon]

What's the obsession people have with finally completing the transformation of this server into another BYOND TDM server ? If you wanna play PvP on a laggy as fuck server and possibly the worst engine for fast click simulator go play any of the other ones, dont try to turn this one into even more LRP

Becuase we are a tdm server trying to pretend some stupid briefing and wait in line while mouth breather McGee throws you three live hefa nades is HRP.

Kill the last crappy remnants of RP; mo more MP, no briefing, req for all, we all just drop at 15 and get some sweet kills. Achieve what we all really want in our hearts. You know it to be true let go of the silly RP

[SilentMountain]

Becuase we are a tdm server trying to pretend some stupid briefing and wait in line while mouth breather McGee throws you three live hefa nades is HRP.

Bro I wish this server even pretended to be HRP, it's memey as shit as it is while calling itself Medium.

Kill the last crappy remnants of RP; mo more MP, no briefing, req for all, we all just drop at 15 and get some sweet kills. Achieve what we all really want in our hearts. You know it to be true let go of the silly RP

Fuck no, maybe in the mind of a 3-shotgun carrying Delta PFC but for me the combat is complete dogshit, BYOND was never intended for something like this and even when devs have stripped the SS13 code to its bare minimum it still falls into turn based strategy fairly regularly

[Hunk1]

What's the obsession people have with finally completing the transformation of this server into another BYOND TDM server ? If you wanna play PvP on a laggy as fuck server and possibly the worst engine for fast click simulator go play any of the other ones, dont try to turn this one into even more LRP

Finally someone sane on this thread.

[antrixx]

What's the obsession people have with finally completing the transformation of this server into another BYOND TDM server ? If you wanna play PvP on a laggy as fuck server and possibly the worst engine for fast click simulator go play any of the other ones, dont try to turn this one into even more LRP

I dont think its that at all. Mps arent some bastion of rp role. They also dont stop the server from falling into lrp. Rounds without mps playing are generally smoother, require less moderator intervention. In theory theyre supposed to be a tool for CiC to utilize control over the marine population. In practice they usually create problems over minor issues that end up spiraling out of control. In the past year the only rounds ive seen involving an admin required to step in and sleep the server have been heavily staffed mp rounds. If youre curious about this I implore you and others to view the crew manifest and keep mental track of the rounds that require major staff interventions. In my experience doing this its only been rounds with a heavy mp listing. The role creates serious problems for staff to deal with, and why wouldnt it? It doesnt exist to actually assist the ship in any real metric. The xeno war is won by communication and manpower. Arresting people reduces man power. Arresting people in significant roles creates strife that destroys communications. Its all largely a hinderance.

If somebody wants to moonlight as a police officer this isnt really the place to do it. An mp cant enforce serious crimes because the mods have to deal with major rule breaks. The contact with the force theyre policing is short, only a fraction of a marines round is spent shipside. Its well known that mps arent well liked and can easily rile up marines. This is cancerous to deal with if youre cic staff because you have to depend on these people to follow your orders. Its also hard to rp with them. Sometimes if I know a good mp is on I will get arrested for something dumb and get a chance to have good rp with them in brig. It gives them something to do, and a chance to have enjoyable rp while enforcing the jobs requirements. The problem is some of the mp mains actually think theyre stopping the server from becoming lrp, or their existence stops things from spiraling out of control. These people are miserable to deal with and its very tough to try and have light hearted rp with them. Again if you are honestly of this belief I implore you to spectate rounds without mps on and compare them to mp staffed rounds.

It hinders marine mains, it hinders cic staff when it starts to majorly impact the marines, it increases ahelp count for stupid marine law related issues. It foments resentment over soft grief. Its just a bad role.

[Hunk1]

Snip

You are wrong in sooooooooo many ways.

MPs were supposed to be a checkpoint to stop LRP. Why it dosen't stop? Because every single marine want to behave like a Autistic Chimp Greytider, and by stopping your attempt of "fun" which I consider LRP, you call them "powertripping", "power hungry", "power abuser". Sure we have some people that try to abuse the role and the JAS system came to stop the abuse in punishments, however, more than ever, we have ahelps about ML issues, because players INSIST in doing things on their way instead of asking or RPing it. You're a clear example of that with the early incident we had today.


Meta-gruding MPs won't change anything, They will keep enforcing marine law as they are OOCly tied rules and MPs won't go away for a good time.


I just wish that players instead of "Barging in, shooting windows to grab attachies from other squad reqs, They ask fellow squad marines."

We don't have to be full realistic, but if you are going to break marine law for a miserable attachie or punch each other, When you get arrested, at least recognize you're wrong and broke the law and serve the sentence like a big boy instead of the whole player base crying "MPs shit, Shitcurity, Power abusers."

[antrixx]

You are wrong in sooooooooo many ways.

MPs were supposed to be a checkpoint to stop LRP. Why it dosen't stop? Because every single marine want to behave like a Autistic Chimp Greytider, and by stopping your attempt of "fun" which I consider LRP, you call them "powertripping", "power hungry", "power abuser". Sure we have some people that try to abuse the role and the JAS system came to stop the abuse in punishments, however, more than ever, we have ahelps about ML issues, because players INSIST in doing things on their way instead of asking or RPing it. You're a clear example of that with the early incident we had today.


Meta-gruding MPs won't change anything, They will keep enforcing marine law as they are OOCly tied rules and MPs won't go away for a good time.


I just wish that players instead of "Barging in, shooting windows to grab attachies from other squad reqs, They ask fellow squad marines."

We don't have to be full realistic, but if you are going to break marine law for a miserable attachie or punch each other, When you get arrested, at least recognize you're wrong and broke the law and serve the sentence like a big boy instead of the whole player base crying "MPs shit, Shitcurity, Power abusers."

Hunk youre putting words in my mouth. The response you gave has virtually nothing to do with what I said. I didnt say that mps were power tripping, or power abusing. I think largely most mps that play here are actually doing a good job of following the rules. If like you say every single marine is refusing to follow the rule, then doesnt that indicate to you a bigger problem? Even if thats not the case what you said is in support of my original statement, the effect they have isnt stopping it.

You made my case for me, it isnt stopping the behaviour. In the mean time it causes issues that you as an admin and other mods continue to have to deal with. The result of this is no change in rp standards and more work for you to have to do. How is that not a bad thing?

As for the ban I got earlier? You pm'd me and I immediately admitted what I did was wrong and I did so in a respectful manner and was honest. I accepted the ban and didnt complain about it. You were totally right to give it to me and I was in the wrong. I have no gripe with that.

A lot of rounds lately have been getting damaged over issues with mps and military law. I think players have a right to be upset that a role thats claimed to be for lrp enforcement is basically doing nothing to change lrp, decreasing overall player enjoyment, and increasing ahelp amounts. What else did I say that you believe is wrong?

[Hunk1]

Hunk youre putting words in my mouth. The response you gave has virtually nothing to do with what I said. I didnt say that mps were power tripping, or power abusing. I think largely most mps that play here are actually doing a good job of following the rules. If like you say every single marine is refusing to follow the rule, then doesnt that indicate to you a bigger problem? Even if thats not the case what you said is in support of my original statement, the effect they have isnt stopping it.

You made my case for me, it isnt stopping the behaviour. In the mean time it causes issues that you as an admin and other mods continue to have to deal with. The result of this is no change in rp standards and more work for you to have to do. How is that not a bad thing?

As for the ban I got earlier? You pm'd me and I immediately admitted what I did was wrong and I did so in a respectful manner and was honest. I accepted the ban and didnt complain about it. You were totally right to give it to me and I was in the wrong. I have no gripe with that.

A lot of rounds lately have been getting damaged over issues with mps and military law. I think players have a right to be upset that a role thats claimed to be for lrp enforcement is basically doing nothing to change lrp, decreasing overall player enjoyment, and increasing ahelp amounts. What else did I say that you believe is wrong?

If my statement shows i am putting words on your mouth, i appologise, not intention here. I am generalizing what i see is 80% of the behavior of our current playerbase.

If like you say every single marine is refusing to follow the rule, then doesnt that indicate to you a bigger problem? Even if thats not the case what you said is in support of my original statement, the effect they have isnt stopping it.

Yes is indicating me a bigger problem, saddly is not a server problem, is a player base problem. Management has a "direction" (in lack of better words atm), Management does hear the players but the Direction CM SS-13 is taking is NOT driven by the player base, Management has said on multiple occasions, playing here is a privilege, not a right. Having said that, Staff will continue punishing players because is a GOAL where Management is aiming at, one specific guideline, Where Admins/Senior Moderators/Moderators are requested to ENFORCE it. We already permabanned repeteadly breaking Rule 12 - Character names, and we had people with the intelectual age of 7 griefing us for the past 7 months and I fight everyday to keep rules fair, but firm when necessary and have been foughting even Multikeyers constantly to the point we have a sheet for identification of who is, how to identify behavior and such.

The main goal for CM SS-13, as far as know, won't change anytime soon, although somethings will be revamped, but the three choices still remain:

Adapt and play
Not adapt, complain and play
Not adapt and leave the community

If you talk with some people on discord, you'll see people who remain on discord but quitted the game because they didn't adapt to the changes.

[antrixx]

If my statement shows i am putting words on your mouth, i appologise, not intention here. I am generalizing what i see is 80% of the behavior of our current playerbase.



Yes is indicating me a bigger problem, saddly is not a server problem, is a player base problem. Management has a "direction" (in lack of better words atm), Management does hear the players but the Direction CM SS-13 is taking is NOT driven by the player base, Management has said on multiple occasions, playing here is a privilege, not a right. Having said that, Staff will continue punishing players because is a GOAL where Management is aiming at, one specific guideline, Where Admins/Senior Moderators/Moderators are requested to ENFORCE it. We already permabanned repeteadly breaking Rule 12 - Character names, and we had people with the intelectual age of 7 griefing us for the past 7 months and I fight everyday to keep rules fair, but firm when necessary and have been foughting even Multikeyers constantly to the point we have a sheet for identification of who is, how to identify behavior and such.

The main goal for CM SS-13, as far as know, won't change anytime soon, although somethings will be revamped, but the three choices still remain:

Adapt and play
Not adapt, complain and play
Not adapt and leave the community

If you talk with some people on discord, you'll see people who remain on discord but quitted the game because they didn't adapt to the changes.

Hunk I agree that the player base doesnt have the power to dictate where rp standards are and what rulings should be. It is at the end of the day up to the host and upper managers to decide this stuff. I also understand that you cannot ever make everyone happy at the same time. I am actually not totally for the idea of flat out removing mps. I simply think that small alterations can be made to actually achieve the goals management wants and keep the player base happy at the same time.

To find a middle ground to to speak via game mechanics. For simpler dumb stuff like stealing attachies and breaking windows, fixes like unbreakable glass. Removing of smoke grenades since theyre not used in combat anyways. Tools to remove the things that seem to be causing a lot of low rp issues and bad interactions with mps. Giving the mps a bit more of a purpose then waiting outside of a squad prep to arrest marines.

I think a real middle ground can be found where you can use game mechanics to reduce the lrp issues, give mps an actual purpose they can succeed at that wont undermine CiC. This way the player base would be happy about not dealing with round disruptions and brig issues. Management can be happy about removing some of the things they view as constantly low rp. At the same time it gives you and mods less work to deal with.

I think its possible to find a solution here that is atleast better then what we currently have but still fits within the goal of managements plans for cmss13.

Edit: Ill amend to this that another big issue is mps interactions with CiC staff. Trying to enforce dress code standards, and other non major crimes on significantly higher ranks is an issue and prime to cause major round disruption. How mps interact with those of higher rank could probably use a rework. It makes sense that really the cmp should be the only one able to enforce minor crimes against lts, and not even Xo's. Its basically nuts to have an mp try to enforce dress code or stuff like that on an XO. The rank disparity is just insane. Its like a mall cop pepper spraying the secretary of defense over his shoes.

[Snooper44]

It isn't that hard to not destroy windows, punch other marines, act like a general asshole, disrespect your superiors, or cause havoc. Show up to briefing, get on the dropship, and deploy. If you get arrested it's because you did something wrong. If you think the MP is abusing their power AHELP and any mod can easily search logs to see if the arrest is valid.

[Somenerd]

I agree that certain things should potentially have a bit more of a rework to stop the same issues from happening every single round, in particular the squad req windows are the cause of like 70% of breaks yet almost no one who breaks the windows is actually willing to face consequences for breaking them. I feel this in particular could be reworked, because some MP's won't even enforce a single window break (minor under ML) because it turns into "MP arrested our spec/someone with name recognition, riot even though the CO has come down to deal with it"

As far as CIC and dress code though, they're officers and leaders and supposed to lead by example. If we're staying in MRP, they would have to abide by SOP as much as anyone else, but changing it to CMP approval was required for officers only could be a thing I'd be down for