Marines are too spec dependent

[Vispainius]

Do you only consider a scenario where Spitter/Sentinel/Warrior are just going head on, alone, in straight line and in bright light? I want to know.

Ignoring the other valid argument regarding 1v1s and keeping to just the practical theory and practice on counters... you clearly didn�t bother to take into account snipers and scouts have night vision and, while kills can be hard to secure sometimes ( depends on circumstances like ammo and health etcetra) , it is extraordinarily easily to get them xenos to fuck off with a good bit of health missing before they even close half the distance.

So yeah, I�ll repeat that statement for those two.

As for RPG, it�s slightly different but again, not hard to set yourself up places that aren�t easily sketch. If you�re continuously rushing forward as a RPG with the intention to remaining in the very front of all the marines you are gonna get targeted and fucked, it�s bad play on your part. Similarity that goes for B18. You wait, find an opportunity to push and fire. OR just set yourself up and wait for that opportunity.

As for pyro Spec, if you have an issue with light and still aren�t fixing it, you deserve to die. It�s not hard to use any of their flame fuel. Be it X B or that shitty normal stuff. Same goes for issues of range. If you have spitter issues, lay down basically any flame type and their ability to spit you down let alone them or anyone else instantly kills you ceases.... except of course like I mentioned the queen or ravager.

For those particular xeno classes to engage a specialist marine having a level of intelligence beyond UNGA DUNGA BiG GUN, they will be forced back or die. That goes for virtually all of them, even the ones with more close up equipment. Why? Because. Playstyle that�s decent lowers or straight up removes the chance to get fucked over by those particular xenos.

This same argument works with the vaunted, albeit shitty HPR. It�s actually not a shit gun. Many just use it as the wrong role. It�s not a gun meant to be lugged in combat as some sort of unga shotgun designed to insta kill. That�s not the purpose. HPR = Heavy Pulse Rifle = Machinegun = Covering and Suppressive fire.
Like spec, people don�t always use it to its purpose with positioning and tactics set accordingly. Then they die.

Issues in this case of warriors and spitty boys arise when people do dumb shit, like trying to be a vanguard player as a RPG or B18. Yeah you can do it. Yeah you�ll probably get kills so it looks like a good idea. Downside is staying on the front of the pack lowers life expectancy. Watch. Wait. Engage. Return to middle/ back of the frontline group. Repeat. (Goes for pyro, b19, Sadar).

[CABAL]

Ignoring the other valid argument regarding 1v1s and keeping to just the practical theory and practice on counters... you clearly didn�t bother to take into account snipers and scouts have night vision and, while kills can be hard to secure sometimes ( depends on circumstances like ammo and health etcetra) , it is extraordinarily easily to get them xenos to fuck off with a good bit of health missing before they even close half the distance.

I just asked a question and you are assuming I didn't bother to take into account snipers and scouts.
Two out of four specs don't have meson-nightvision.
Three out of four don't have IFF.
Two out of four don't shoot bullets.
You can't just "go back" when Queen arrives and screeches and you will be targetted.
Three out of four have to be close.
Boiler gas behind/close/direct at you and you can't escape as spec.
Three out of four have to be close.

[Vispainius]

I just asked a question and you are assuming I didn't bother to take into account snipers and scouts.
Two out of four specs don't have meson-nightvision.
Three out of four don't have IFF.
Two out of four don't shoot bullets.
You can't just "go back" when Queen arrives and screeches and you will be targetted.
Three out of four have to be close.
Boiler gas behind/close/direct at you and you can't escape as spec.
Three out of four have to be close.

Snipers have scopes.
Scouts have scopes.
RPG usually has a mino-scope.
Grenadier and Pyro need no scope, but loadout means they could use one if they tried.
Pyro, grenadier, and RPG don't have NV nor is that an issue. They shouldn't. Irrelevant point.
Flamers have a decent range, further than every xeno plus it's flame which illuminates.
IFF wasn't the issue here. Irrelevant.
Bullets being fired or not is irrelevant, more so considering the ones that don't fire bullets still have loadouts where they do. Irrelevant.
Queen is being and has had combat nerfs. Nevertheless, good point but irrelevant. Very easy to avoid that issue as a spec. It's called picking your battles. You can't kill it alone, nor should you be encouraged to.

1a. If you are getting trapped by boiler gas you likely overextended which is usually your own fault. You probably pushed a too tight zone in the front or got so surrounded it was all fucked anyways. I'll say the same thing I do to xenos with a twist... You overextended, get over it. Either push, Fallback into the gas and have a chance of failing to fallback fully and die but be likely recovered Or Hold position and hope you can holdout.

1b. If you aren't trapped by gas but are close to it. Fuck off to the back or middle of the marine group until it disperses. If you don't, then yeah, NO SHIT you are gonna get targeted and die. That should be obvious.
If you can't retreat back, you probably are in a variant of overextending. Possibly too crowded for example. If that's the case, see 1a, then refer to 1b. Again.

Spec is 3/4 positioning, aiming and waiting, and 1/4 seizing the moment.


You are a important cog, but not the be all end all. I think devs have changed that to be the case for many specs. They are really fucking valuable. Possibly too much . But. Regardless, are they ubermensch marines ? Not really. Dumb ones die easy. Good ones usually live and get a couple kills, even with the worst loadouts. The ability to be great through direct combat is much higher but that's offset by things like the amount of em, them being targeted and their ability to royally fuckup just as much as they have the ability to royally hit the jackpot in combat.

I'm not sure what your arguing. You didn't really prove anything counter to what i said, just validated the overarching statement that it is easy to get xenos to fuck off with their health mostly, it's easy to die as a dumb spec who is ungaing and that kills are not easy, nor should they be....

[CABAL]

snip

Where do you see argument? I just asked a question. Every my post must be argument by definiton?
My question was if you took into consideration other situations. This question let you express deeply your thought process. The end, nothing more, nothing less.

[Vispainius]

Where do you see argument? I just asked a question. Every my post must be argument by definiton?
My question was if you took into consideration other situations. This question let you express deeply your thought process. The end, nothing more, nothing less.

I apologize, i took a bad stance in mentality there with the argument thing. Sorry for that.
Is my thought process clarified?

To simplify my paragraphs of the topic and other related topics, in regards to spitters and specs....

My opinion is that the spitters are a nuisance but not inherently dangerous unless it's a praetorian or you are alone/semi-alone (read: Far from friends, overextending, pushed without allies/cutoff).

Spitters are something i laugh about in ecstatic happiness when I kill because i know the danger, but don't die to usually as a spec unless I pushed up and had a "series of unfortunate events" happen upon being spit down. Rarely do i get dragged off by one otherwise. In that same vein, they are more elusive and harder to kill yet easy to shoo off for the most part. Resilient, but low threat if you are not overextending.