Regarding Recent Events: Late Edition

[awan]

There are different kind of mistakes. Ones that you admit you did before anyone did, and those you apology after somebody pointed it out.
I'm personally kind of guy who is more likey to "forgive" murderer who came to the police by himself and admitted that he did that, than petty thef that will only admit that he did when he was caught during criminal activity and after hearing that the police have 10 witnesses, camera footage, prints, DNA from hairs etc.
Also how previous similar "cases" were resolved are a major factor here.

It's also a bit of a "personall", for me atleast. All those posts about "I enjoy my wins hard earned", "short feel of a god" and "you are supposed to enjoy losing as marine" from staff/xeno mains/staff xeno mains are flushed down the toilet when: "I'm sorry for spawning in as many items as I did. While it was never my intent to give myself an advantage over the normal player..." and "... going to sit down and just enjoy a round of CM for the first time in months..."
This means that even high ranking staff thinks unconsciously that it's very hard/nearly impossible to enjoy playing as marine with standard gear.
This affects me as a marine player and player at all. It's like turning SS13 into "Pay2Win/BeAStaff2Win" with addition of forced unbalanced gameplay. Imagine what could have happen when League of Legends would add something like that. One team has one player less, but the rest are much stronger, they all have big resistances, some of them have immunity to certain abilities of other team, respawn, growing stronger with time, night vision, "x-ray" and they can do whatever they want, while other team has only one player more, shitty abilities with one fairly strong that if that character dies, it will not come back, no respawn, worse overall statistic and they have rules to not use certain tactics.
Gee... I wonder if it would be still quite popular.

Shit talk on reddit does not affect me/players, or my gameplay. Staff "double crossing" themselfs does not affect me/players gameplay. It's a bit selfish opinion, but it's mine and it's honest.

I'm not a fan of "jail/exile" punishment, instead there should be something like "public services". Make the damn game balanced, so it will be fun for all that try and if one tries harder, then he has bigger chances to win. As simply as that.

By the way: How spawning items that are better than those commonly available (and themselfs practically unavailable in normal gameplay [incendiary pistol magazines]) will not "give myself an advantage over the normal player"?
If some runner will be caught during olympics with amphetamine syringe in his/her pants that is ready to use, but unused and he/she will say "No worries mates! Yes, I indeed brought this illegal doping substance and yes, I'm having it with myself, but my intent was not to give myself unfair adventage over other runners!". Who would belive? Would that runner avoid "justice"/punishment?

Its still always measuring with 2 scales.

[Swagile]

CABAL is right though.

All this talk of "losing is fun" "you shouldn't be salty" and here we have high staff admitting to spawning shit in because being a default unga is not fun or fair.

Really makes you think.

[Nimiety]

There was drama over pistol incendiaries? Must have missed that one. They're not even that good, by the way, low damage burn and low burn stacks too. The fire on the xeno will go out by the time they turn the corner. Better than regular pistol bullets, I guess, but nothing compared to standard rifle rounds.

I thought about suggesting a policy where you had to de-admin if playing in the round, but that'd probably be really boring for the staff.

[Moja]

It raises the question of what else was spawned in without non-staff knowing, or how far the 'line' is on what is acceptable to spawn in as staff.

[Chaznoodles]

So what do we do with people when they make a mistake, eh? Do we throw them off a cliff? Do we throw them to the wolves? Do we berate them until we're all blue in the gills? None of those things will solve anything. When a person makes a mistake you help lift that person back up. You do this because they're the ones in need of help at that moment.

Emerald apologized for a mistake she made, this is not an easy thing to do. As far as I know this isn't a chronic issue, and thus far I would imagine a large portion of the community agrees that she has been doing her job quite well. She's not here to be an ass or to screw things up, she's here because she loves this game and this community. Do you think that you can help her out with this?

1. An apology was only forthcoming when they were outed for their actions. This means that they didn't believe there was anything wrong with it, that other staff either didn't care/were too afraid/were too complicit to face it and deal with it, or report it. This apology is blatantly false and only serves to show they have zero remorse for their actions.

2. Higher staff should be held to higher standards. As far as I've been told, Emerald was 'talked to' by Jamie, which is absolutely zero punishment. Slaps on the wrist are commonplace here and serve absolutely no purpose nor punishment. The fact that a head member of staff can get away with this with no concrete punishment is telling of the state of the staff team.

3. It is a chronic issue. As per the staff who left due to their actions, Emerald has been doing this repeatedly over a long scale of time, as well as holding an iron grip on councils so they cannot make decisions against Emerald's wishes. Once again, they only apologised because they got outed, zero remorse.

If someone abuses their role on purpose and expects to not get found out, and when they do issues a fake apology and gets 'talked to', then the staff team holds zero standards. I've been here longer than maybe two or three people, I staffed here before a lot of folk even played SS13. If you can't deal concrete punishments to people who purposefully abuse their role, nor have a transparent process in doing so, then you're going to continue to foster an atmosphere where people will continue to do it.

It raises the question of what else was spawned in without non-staff knowing, or how far the 'line' is on what is acceptable to spawn in as staff.

This is a point I'd like to press. Emerald is only apologising because they got outed by staff who left over the issue, and they only named certain occurrences. How long have they been doing this for, how many occurrences were left out, and how many other staff are complicit in this kind of action?

[ThesoldierLLJK]

I thought about suggesting a policy where you had to de-admin if playing in the round, but that'd probably be really boring for the staff.

It would be hell for lowpop when it's usually 1 admin/1 mod and maybe a mentor online if you're lucky.


Also here's the main beef I have with this community:

Someone makes a mistake and everyone wants them tar and feathered, and I'm not talking about just Staff.

Player report: BAN THEM!
Whitelist Report: REVOKE THEM!
Staff Report: REMOVE THEM!

Yet when people here get bwoinked they beg us not be warned/noted/banned.

Emerald has been doing this repeatedly over a long scale of time, as well as holding an iron grip on councils so they cannot make decisions against Emerald's wishes.

I'm not sure who is telling you this, but I've been on two different councils in two terms. I have seen one and only one time where EB went against a council decision. It was to just suspend a synth player when the rest of us wanted them revoked cause they had a previous warning within the same week.

Majority of the time it's us telling Emerald what we want, and pinging her when we need things done or applications are ready for approval/denial. I've seen no irongrip you speak of, if anything we find ourselves constantly reminding our head staff/managers that we need something done.

[Cry of Wolves]

You do realize counselors are supposed to counsel and not actually make the final decisions on rulings, right? That was pretty much the whole point of them, to help with the decision making, not be the decision makers.

[Dolth]

Yeah.

But then players don't have the right of saying 'Sorry' and staying unharmed if their offense is major.
The same should be applied here.

[Akabinxstar]

I wonder if anyone else got away with just an apology.

[Mann handle]

There was drama over pistol incendiaries? Must have missed that one. They're not even that good, by the way, low damage burn and low burn stacks too. The fire on the xeno will go out by the time they turn the corner. Better than regular pistol bullets, I guess, but nothing compared to standard rifle rounds.

I thought about suggesting a policy where you had to de-admin if playing in the round, but that'd probably be really boring for the staff.

Pistol rounds and rifle rounds which later (the pistol rounds) were used for improper escalation against a marine. Then the background stuff on top of that is why we're here today, which includes dealing with your own reports and tribes pitching tents over the issue.

For references see
The Report against emerald: //showthrea...t-EmeraldBlood
And Zane's exit with a lot more details: //showthrea...outta-head-out

Also here's the main beef I have with this community:

Someone makes a mistake and everyone wants them tar and feathered, and I'm not talking about just Staff.

Player report: BAN THEM!
Whitelist Report: REVOKE THEM!
Staff Report: REMOVE THEM!

Yet when people here get bwoinked they beg us not be warned/noted/banned.

I would say speak for yourself but some elements of that is true 100%. But most of the flogging over this issue i think is just how badly it was dealt with when not long back a dev was caught doing shit and received a different response, that plus the whole "behind the curtains" act which seems to have irk'd people. Now people are asking as to how much of this shit is happening with fear and glee (mostly glee as most people like watching a dumpster fire) as to what may be dug up.


Personally this is not as bad as some cases of abuse I've seen in my time but it's still abuse. The bigger problem is just how bad some elements of dealing with these sorts of things are, sure spawning shit to me is not exactly something to bollock someone over greatly but the shooting of someone with incendiary pistol mags for shooting a pred (which is considered an antagonist) to which it was reportedly hand waved away is what takes the cake for me. What Swagile, Moja and whatever I can gleam from Cabal's english sum up my deeper concerns and have a lot of weight behind their statements. Plus saying sorry is one thing, changing yourself is another, many players have been punished before without some chance of saying sorry so I'd actually want to see a form of change for the better. Regardless of punishment.

I'd rather not delve too much into this however mainly for the fact that as much as this will likely be used for discussion, the thread is not intended for it and would most likely get slapped.