what servers were you in?Originally Posted by Somenerd
what servers were you in?
I will tell you why people are "outraged" (it's more like mild annoyance that you deem outrage because you need people to look unreasonable so that your point seems morally superior due to being from the "calm" perspective) over the hard shift in attitude.
CM was never intolerant, CM never actively drove away diverse groups of people, and CM never even tried to be offensive. What's happening here is a fundamental misunderstanding of the community itself and how they communicated with eachother. CM was very much one large group, maybe some people were friends, maybe some people were enemies, but for the most part everyone knew eachother and they all had interpersonal relationships.
Now the server has been hit by a new wave of staff and players trying to forcibly change how the community interacts with eachother and enjoys spending their time, and all these new people are demonising the people that came before and putting themselves on a pedestal, calling everyone toxic because they simply cannot understand them. Please tell me, why is it toxic to call my gay friend a faggot when we are both in full understanding it is not an insult and both find it funny? Was it toxic when half the pred whitelist was calling Bancrose the n word for a whole year with his permission and understanding that it is not meant to cause offense, and everyone involved finding it funny?
In my 2 and a half years on CM, the vast majority of people I've seen take issue with slurs and "homophobia and racism" have been the same small group of people get offended on other people's behalf. I can think of maybe two instances where someone actually a part of the demographic being made fun of actually got offended or took issue with it. I remember last year I made a joke about beating women in the Discord, a MAN got offended and reported me to Discord staff, then when I got banned (but unbanned) they ragequit CM over me not being removed permanently for a joke.
But if I made that joke again today, I'd be removed without question, and then Soldier would make an announcement to the whole server about how much he hates the community and if you fart prepare for shit or some other similar nonsense.
It's not that the new ideals are bad, or that they have no place on SS13. It's that they are stomping down the community CM has had for years, the community that put CM in that number one spot. They may have a place on SS13 or another server, but they don't belong on CM. They fundamentally work against the anti-PC, legitimately equal ground CM held. I need to emphasise that, CM was always a place where anybody could be whoever they feel they are (except pedos lol), white and straight people were just as likely to get playground bullied as everyone else, and nobody ever even asked what you were before saying anything. It's cosmically ironic that this push to make CM more friendly and inclusive while putting people on a pedestal has resulted in legitimate targeted transphobia/racism/homophobia, whereas before that did not occur nearly as much.
This is so out of touch it hurts. You really only need to look at the absolute nosedive in population to see that people ARE leaving, they're just not being vocal about it because they don't care anymore. It's only natural that the vocal ones stick around because they actually care and want to see change. You already know that, though, Somenerd, you just need to pretend they're complaining and raging for the sake of it so that their point seems less valid than yours.
I've changed literally nothing. If the reports contain the usage of the word in those exact contexts of "bro, homie" etc, then I'll rule the words as allowed. I'm having a mod meeting this week anyway.
There literally has not been a change regarding the rule of nigga as a word, but you are reacting as if every single person saying it is getting banned.
I also don't care if you're black and want to say slurs. We don't hand out n word passes, both because that's weird and not really verifiable. I wouldn't be okay with a gay or trans person calling someone a tranny or faggot either.
If you're not allowed to say it, I'm not allowed to say it.
No idea what you're referring to. This thread is partly "Why can't we say slurs" and you're saying the slurs don't happen.Come and go because of toxicity?
No one cares if you're asian, white, black or some shit in the server
No one cares about your gender in the server
No one calls slurs to each other in the server.
No one in their right mind who has an established character and visible CKEY to staff members that will jeopardize their reputation with the friends they have in the server by saying hard slurs
They do, and we generally tell people to just "stop" unless they're being excessive.
I don't get the relevance of this. It's not allowed. It's not going to show up aside from people who make a slip, or are intentionally being racist. So yeah, of course it's rare. We deal with it when we see it. Is it somehow justified to say it because it's not said often?Seriously. I dare you guys to search for hard n, fagg*ts and see how much of it shows up in the gpanel logs. You will literally see it probably used once or even none in a day.
I have no idea who DMT is, but gonna disagree on the "no one has been targeted for being black or trans" thing.Toxicity? Like how people make fun of DMT and saying they have a UAV and metacord against him? Thats the only toxicity we have in the discord and everything else is not welcome.
There had been no toxicity that was a direct attack to someone because they were black/trans.
As far as the pride thing. I really don't get it. I've told you several times. People weren't banned for not liking the pride flag, but for overt homophobia. I'm literally referring to people posting ALL LGBT PEOPLE ARE PEDOPHILES stuff. If that's your response to a pride flag being the logo of the server for a month, it's not exactly our fault you decided to be homophobic?
There hasn't been a rulechange about slurs in literally ages, so I really don't get what you're referring to. This is a case of a few mods banning like, two people over it and getting staff reported. I'm waiting on logs before I take a full look at it. Stop freaking out.
It's really not hard to not call people faggots. Jesus.
EDIT: Also sorry I didn't realise you commented chainsaw, but server population fluctuates a lot in general. I can agree that folks are leaving, but I'm pretty sure people have said it elsewhere in the thread, there's lots of things going on, particularly development wise. I do not think "I can't say slurs on the server without getting banned" is the breaking point that it should be.
I understand why people say slurs within their own friend groups. I honestly don't care if you call your gay friend a fag and he's okay with that. Just don't do it on the server? It looks bad, it does get complained about, and I don't want to put the hands of what is tolerable exclusively in the hands of people that get offended over it.
Both because:
1: You don't want someone to get you in trouble for something just because they got offended and
2: I don't want someone who genuinely finds this shit cringy to be targeted for speaking out about it.
I literally am not the sort of person to ban for no reason. I don't like banning people and most of the time I'm involved in discussions regarding punitive action I'm usually arguing in the benefit of the doubt for people.
No one is being put on a pedestal. This line of thought just feels like "Well, we weren't racist or homophobic or transphobic until you started TALKING about it".
Last edited by Somenerd; 08-08-2021 at 05:36 PM. Reason: accidentally quoted twice
Anna "High-Toss" Stall
I'm a manager now
I manage moods
B)
Ok so its toxic to have pride flags and disavow bigotry but being a bigot for "religious" and "moral" reasons isn't? Living your life as a bigot is far, far, far worse than just not allowing people to be homophobic on a SS13 server and throwing up some pride flags.
Hey, you expanded the story to now me reporting you to discord staff? This is getting interesting, I'll await the next thing you come up with.
The topic of discussion itself, that being slurs, is not the issue on its own, moreso it is the most easy to look to example of the drastic shift in attitude, enforcement, and community division. It is a part of a larger-scale issue of staff becoming too involved in the interpersonal relationships between community members, without most of them even being in touch with the community in the first place. What once was a hub for many different people to interact with eachother and become friends, acquaintances, or even grow to hate eachother, is not pretty much just a hub where you get your new round alert ping and switch back to your side discord with the same friend group.
Maybe it does look bad, but appearances aren't everything. In an effort to make CM's community look good, it has turned bad. Now instead of being turned away and finding an alternative immediately, people get invested and are hurt even more when they notice these interactions between people. A community cannot inherently be "good" or "bad" just based on the values it presents upfront, or even for what it truly is, CM's community was very niche in a niche game, but it was so spectacular that it literally topped the BYOND hub with what was thought to be an unbreakable #1 for a long time, at least until things started to change. Of course there were still people turned away by it at the time, but plenty people looked deeper and interacted properly with it and chose to stay.
As for getting in trouble because someone got offended, that pretty much is what happens now, when people speak of the old ways they refer to "if only one or two people in a large group have an issue, it's not really a problem and can be left alone". It's not that people get isolated, it's that the conversation isn't for them. Not everything has to cater to everybody all the time, and not everybody should be able to just join a conversation and immediately change it because they decided the conversation they chose to join makes them uncomfortable. To a certain point you need to just let players sort their own shit out and not coddle everybody all the time. A fair majority of people playing this game are adults, or very close to becoming adults, they don't need to be treated like children, and if they do there's plenty of other places for it.
Whether or not you specifically are for banning people, it is undeniable that there have been many quick, harsh bans applied lately. From people being banned for posting the same NSFW image as a mod and getting banned vs the mod getting an internal warning, to someone being immediately banned for saying Chris Chan has a penis, even to a community member being banned for drawing wojak as staff, lately the "drama" regarding quick and excessive bans literally never stops. This cannot be denied, or ignored, or shoved under the rug, it is a legitimate fact that it is happening. Everyone sees it.
Okay so it wasn't you that's good to know but the part about you ragequitting is still spittin' fax.
Last edited by ChainsawMullet; 08-08-2021 at 06:12 PM. Reason: Added response to Somenerd
The state of CM. Reminds of a book from some famous British author that wrote Animal Farm.
can we get back on topic before the forum staff close the thread over some dumb shit
The main topic is about nigga, though I guess we can add retard in to.
Anyway talking about how mods are treated and how they might be too ban happy is also worth discussing with this as it feels some mods might be getting too jumpy and are not being kept to high standard.
For population going down due to stringent enforcement, ha. Yea, no. The population of the server been suffering from lack of new good features, the tech webs were a bust and abandoned and we havent got really anything new in about 6 so months, yes we got new ice and science but they been not well received to say the least. Science needs more baking and Ice should be shelved or it needs the control points back and CPs to be fine tuned to work but that a whole other discussion. But, population has not died from enforcement against slurs. TBH discord even had problems at times with wackos sometimes overrunning like the Sigma guy, the nonironic guy that sounded like some commercial spammer then anything else, and the antivax guy that just kept going till banned. Most other causes you seen people just directly attack the mods and then get smacked, over and over again, it like trying to punch a cop and being surprised when you get arrested. For the edgy memes, very hit and miss if they survive, but we don't need crappy low effort 'woman got beaten please clap' memes and other low effort memes that just push agendas.
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