invisibility combat is bad game design

[Ethan10000llahd]

lurker can literally move full speed cloak, not get the pounce stun from a person if they choose, and move full afterward after slashing up to 3 times with people nearby, like 5 without, and 2 if not direct pounce for insta bone fracs and delimbs, like bro watch podrick or boo play lurker its braindead, old lurker had a counter moba one doesnt, even if you have like me and hogg next to eachother theres a big chance a lurker can slimefrac us with how it plays now overall invisibility combat is just not fun at all to play against for either side, its not about if its balanced, its about if you really want to be schizophrenic over enemies you cant see for like half a hour until they are dead, it actually drains you mentally esp if the lurker player is "good"(knows how to frac without pounce stunning himself)

[mizolo]

lurker can literally move full speed cloak, not get the pounce stun from a person if they choose, and move full afterward after slashing up to 3 times with people nearby, like 5 without, and 2 if not direct pounce for insta bone fracs and delimbs, like bro watch podrick or boo play lurker its braindead, old lurker had a counter moba one doesnt, even if you have like me and hogg next to eachother theres a big chance a lurker can slimefrac us with how it plays now overall invisibility combat is just not fun at all to play against for either side, its not about if its balanced, its about if you really want to be schizophrenic over enemies you cant see for like half a hour until they are dead, it actually drains you mentally esp if the lurker player is "good"(knows how to frac without pounce stunning himself)

You forget that marines aren't supposed to 1v1 xenos.

Xenos have the power of the individual, marines DON'T, they have the power of the team.

I don't see the problem here.

If you don't have a shotgunner near you, or support near you, You're SUPPOSED to die. Anyone who tells you different is clearly either:
A: a new player or
B: Fucking with you

[Ethan10000llahd]

this stopped being a team game when people on marines dropped below 20 iq average and all the robust players are quitting or being banned and you missed the point that even with others around lurkers can still instafrac u and leave with minimal risk

[Teruyo]

To be honest i would agree with Ethan at this point,

Pre Moba Lurkers had their stun from pounce made short, so they could not 1 shoot/delimb the marine. Currently Lurkers dont need to stun last longer, since upgrade of damage on skill make them put marine to crit + broke 2 bones in lesser time then the old lurkers require.

And i do understand that you are not suppose to fight Xenos 1vs1 but currently Lurkers can easily dash a fight perma damage (I'm referring here to the broken bones, and yes that things lesser the combat effectiveness of the marine, and medical APC/doctors are not always available) without risk of betting caught and being killed (Even warriors at this points since they are slower have more risk to it), unless the encounter the shotgun juggler).

This is being shown multiple times for Lurkers LZ rushing on marines without cades.

[Stan_albatross]

Yeah, you're not meant to 1v1 lurkers, but lurkers also shouldn't be able to frac a guy's leg and fuck him over MAJORLY because he wasn't standing right next to Cass, and don't even get me started on lurker gangs or lurker solocap

[Usnpeepoo]

i think the problem is, when a lurker pounces someone and the guy next to them stuns the lurker the guy on the floor never gets up. Its entirely reliant on the one guy next to you and the one on the floor has to watch whether the lurker gets a minor stun and pounces away with a frac on the other guy or they get bodied.

Warrior on the other hand is the opposite, if your buddy gets lunged and the warrior gets stunned minor or major, the guy on the floor has a big chance to PB the warrior and everybody around can follow up, this isn't the case with lurker obviously and thats what makes lurker so hard to deal with. And the fact that they have that screenwide pounce just in case they get stunned and there is no quick follow up.

[ObsidianCrow]

First of all. Ethan is right. You should listen to him he's one of the most robust players right now. Second. An easy fix to me would be to lower his health or make him weaker to PBs. It takes fucking ages to get up after one pounce and you are usually going to be in crit / have fracs/ loads of pain but if you do get up and punish a greedy lurker with a pb they have just enough health to run away and heal which a runner does not have.

As for scout IDK. His cloak is insanely strong yes but who has more of an impact on a round? A robust scout or a decent sadar/GL. Sadar and GL are so strong and important I just dont know if nerfing scout even matters. I feel like scout is underrated but at the same time I dont see alot of results. The players that can probably break scout usually just play PFC and the nerds who do play scout often are shitty machete / throwing knife users who get nothing done besides meme the hive for 10 seconds before it's immediately rebuilt.

[Tails of Akira]

lurkers are insanely resilient against m37 as opposed to m39
which I find hilarious
yes, I play lurker if you're wondering.....

[Tails of Akira]

also @lunarflu
speak up nerd

[Ethan10000llahd]

few ideas on the line rn, make lurker a weaker dancer, strip its invis and remove the dancer strain from prae (goldendarkness helped me on that one and can elaborate a bit further) revert lurker a bit to make it get a stun on pounce and/or slower movement when invisible, and then just general number changes which is the least appealing fix and probably not even ultimately good at all