Rals - Rule 4, 11 (Griefing and ML)

[Nunk]

Player Report

Your Byond ID?

Nunk

Date of Incident

February 18, 2022

Your Character Name?

Gord Martin

Accused Byond Key(if known):

Rals

Accused Character Name

Brett McMatherson

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)

Round start 1:12PM CST, most stuff happened ~1:25PM CST

What rule(s) were broken:

Rule 4, 11 (Griefing and ML)

Description of the incident:

Copy pasted from:
//showthrea...alkguy&p=80513

I was playing as MP Gord Martin. Before drop, Delta Engineer Carl Johannson stripped off my clothes and attempted to run away. Myself and another MP attempted arrest, but as the other MP was dealing with Carl (who was stunned and cuffed on the ground), I arrested another marine for interference.

I was called to Brig some minutes later by CMP Brett McMatherson over MP comms. He questioned me about the arrest, then ordered my own. Reason being, paraphrasing, I did not give arrest warning to Carl who was attempting to run away before I stunned him with a baton. He cited my lack of voice recorder recording, which to my knowledge is mentioned nowhere in SOP nor ML either.

Now, here's the rub:

1. There is a Discord ML clarification explicitly about this situation. MPs are allowed to delay arrest citations given that the arrestee is attempting escape.

2. If Brett disagreed with my version of events -- why? No one was saying otherwise.

3. If Brett is claiming ignorance on the ML clarification, that would be a hard lie. Brett is a highly respected MP player, and he himself rarely cites reasons when performing arrests. To the best of my knowledge he has never been punished for this.

In any case, I was arrested and brigged. I ahelped, Schalk responded and assured me that I would be released so long as I sent a fax. I did so, and was released about 10 minutes later.

I am writing this staff report because the situation was not handled to my liking. CMP Brett was never arrested for Prevarication or NoD, nor demoted. I explicitly asked for either in my accepted appeal to HC. Nothing happened except a Provost officer sent at the very end of the round 30 minutes later who didn't do anything because of a server restart. Due to this, I'd like an OOC resolution to this issue.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):

You will need to pull logs

What resolution are you seeking?

I would like Rals to be warned or noted, else whatever staff deems necessary.

Rals is highly versed in ML and should know better.

[Nunk]

Using the second post in reply to Rals:
//showthrea...0505#post80505

I hear reports of MP baiting marines on DS, come to DS, see Martin without uniform and ask what is going on, some other MPs came to DS as well. As soon as Martin puts uniform on, he takes out stunbaton and tries to stun Johansson

You are being intentionally disingenuous and leaving out key information. I was stripped of my uniform (and all my attached gear) by Carl Johannson. I attempted arrest, and Carl even admitted in the Discord to running away.

DCC Piett, who was in charge of DS as far as I am aware, ordered Martin to leave Alamo, which in my eyes is not really illegal order

Drop Crew Chief has the same rank as MPs (E-5). However, MPs are in a higher position. As per rank structure, a DCC cannot order an MP off the dropship, just as SLs cannot order MPs around.
If Piett were a Pilot Officer, their orders would be valid. However, they were not.

I was on the scene myself and did not really notice Johansson trying to run away until he was hit with baton once.

With due respect, you are lying through your teeth. If you really witnessed the scene, why did you ping Carl on Discord only for him to affirm my series of events?

He wanted to use Assault charge, which I find questionable unless I miss some context Martin knows, I'd say that Hooliganism fits better for such situation, maybe Disorderly Conduct (if you stretch it a bit and think Johansson's intent was to start DS riot) or Sexual Harassment at most

This is incorrect. Hooliganism is reserved for non-offenses such as knocking on windows and force-feeding other marines. Fully stripping an MP is far higher in orders of magnitude.
As one of the last bastions of HRP in CM, Marine Law closely follows real life. As per real life, ripping someone’s clothes off would constitute as assault. A Google search would affirm this point of view.
Just in case, I’ve also taken the liberty of asking SilencerPL (a highly competent CMP main), whom agrees with me.

In the end I wish to add that I know about clause that allows MPs to use stun tools before arrest is announced, however I do not believe that it can be used in such situation.

Carl was attempting to run away. The clause would 100% apply.

[Rals]

I will not argue about ML interpretations here, since it is not place for it. I merely explained my side story. I do wish to add a little on two of your points, however.

You are being intentionally disingenuous and leaving out key information. I was stripped of my uniform (and all my attached gear) by Carl Johannson. I attempted arrest, and Carl even admitted in the Discord to running away.

I wish to say, that he started running only after you pulled out baton, according to screenshot you provided. There is not much reason to take baton out before announcing arrests, I believe (At least in this context). And I wish to say as well, that yoy mentioned the fact you were stripped in report itself, so I did not see any need to include it in my reply.

With due respect, you are lying through your teeth. If you really witnessed the scene, why did you ping Carl on Discord only for him to affirm my series of events?

I am not lying at any point here. I did witness you standing nearly naked and after my question "What is going on?" and putting on uniform you immediately started using baton. I pinged Carl on Discord to make sure, that is all. After all, I can be mistaken as well or miss something even while on the scene

[FortyPercent]

Gonna be pulling the logs for this

[FortyPercent]

Apologies for the enormous delay. I had to deal with some RL stuff and the rest of the admin team was already at capacity. But here we go!

The initial brawl until the CMP shows up:

Part two of the dropship brawl:

Aftermath of the dropship riot:

The arrest:

The Ahelp

Admin talks with Rals:

I know it's been forever, but if you recall anything I missed, do say so.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

This was technically already handled by Schalkguy, but I don't believe Rals had malicious intent from the logs. At the most this will be issued as a minor warning note to rals for a CMP marine law violation since he jumped the gun with poor judgement.