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Thread: Crimson_Imperator - Ban Appeal (Permanent Ban)

  1. #1
    Junior Member
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    Crimson_Imperator - Ban Appeal (Permanent Ban)

    Ban Appeal
    Byond ID?
    Crimson Imperator
    Do you confirm you have read the Appeal Rules and that this appeal conforms to them?
    Yes
    Character Name?
    Nicholas 'Locust' Pershing
    What is your discord tag? (If appealing a discord ban)
    Red Imperator#1507
    Type of Ban?
    Permanent Ban
    What is your Bancode?
    N/A, not available
    If jobban, which job are you appealing?
    N/A
    Admin who banned you (if known)
    Grimreaperx15 applied the ban, Moonshank was who I spoke to in Ahelps
    Total Ban Duration
    30.4 Days
    Remaining Duration
    28 Days
    What other servers do you play on?
    Mostly CMSS13, some DS13, some RUCMSS13.
    Are you now or have you been banned on any servers? Which ones?
    Permabanned from paradise.
    Do you play using a Virtual Machine?
    No
    Is your copy of Windows legitimate?
    Yes
    Do you connect using a VPN? If so, which provider?
    Nope
    Reason for Ban
    CMSS13's server crashed, and the admins stated that I was the cause. I do not believe I was the cause of the server's crash. The server's codebase has not been very stable recently, there was a crash the day before, and the day after, the day I supposedly caused the crash of the server. There was also a bug/error which caused random job bans, and Perma bans the day after I was banned. They stated that I willfully attempted to harm server functionality. They questioned me about what I was doing and erroneously concluded I was the cause. I went into detail in the ahelp about how the clock machine I was building worked. I tried to show how I could not have been the cause of the server crash, but the admin was unable to understand what I was saying, repeatedly asking for clarifications. I explained how each of the mechanics interacts with each other. I explained to him how each of the systems worked and how they affected the server, providing examples of how they do not affect its functionality. I do not believe I could have been the cause of the crash. I also spoke to multiple people familiar with the code, who stated that pipes and proximity sensors have almost no effect on lag and make up an insignificant amount. One of the key reasons I do not believe I was the cause of the crash was that I created an identical design to test it for almost the entirety of the infamous "Beeping round". It made zero issues that round and ran almost the entire round. That round had roughly ~150 players, if I recall correctly (please check), whereas the round I was banned from had 186 players. Pipe mechanics are complex, with player count playing a significant part in physics work. I was asked why I did not build it on my own server to test it, and I explained that they do not work the same depending on population levels. I have noticed bugs at different player levels, but have not noticed bugs with pipes at that player count interval and never saw similar issues when building and operating the identical design the night before. Pipe mechanics are difficult, with player count playing a significant part in how the physics work. The admins seemed to think that proximity sensors played a part in crashing the server, but I disagree, since on the beeping round it was running about 20x faster pulse wise and caused 0 issues of lag or of server instability. I spoke to multiple people familiar with the codebase, and they told me that proximity sensors do not play a significant part in the lag. I tried to find anyone who knew about disposal code specifically, but I suspect I know the most about how it works, and could not get hard stats or information from coders. I think it is also important to mention the disposal pipe network was simple, reducing server latency. It only had 6 (including the chute and truck, which play no part in lag) components each, there were 5 networks in parallel. Each one of the networks only had 3 items in them, for a total of 12 items moving, meaning it contributed an extraordinarily small amount of server latency. I designed it to be as small as possible to prevent it from causing lag or server instability, which was my effort to try to cause as small of an impact as possible. It can be seen by the shrunk down size compared to other pipe designs I made in the past. I also learned from coders that disposals are extremely efficient in regards to reducing lag creation, since they use a force-move system which reduces lag generated from objects. The amount of lag created by having all of the networks running in parallel would be similar to the amount created by a marine emptying a bag into a trashcan and flushing it. The server had 0 ill effects from me starting any of the machines. An admin also asked me why I built the clock, to which I tried to explain I was doing it for fun and to see if it was possible or viable for any scientific testing. I was interested in this because I like engineering on CMSS13 was testing how to make an automated pulse system for signalers, which would be useful with automating tasks. The server had 0 issues once I started the 5th network, and I used 8 junk objects to test it, increasing the total number of objects in the systems to 20. All of the 4 starting networks containing the proximity sensors and caused 0 issues. The server never lagged when I was working near it, proving it was not a significant cause of any server latency. All the machines I have built in the past which caused server latency have also given client side latency when near them. I have started every mhelps about pipes I receive with the warning about how easily pipes can get you banned, to try and stop them from using it for griefing. I do not believe I was the cause of the server's crash. I believe the code has been getting more and more unstable with the additions and reversions. I spoke to a number of people, many didn't want to share what they said due to a lack of direct research. I could not find any area experts in this topic specifically and I believe there is a misunderstanding about how the background mechanics work. My thanks for reading through this, I hope it can make the ahelps in the evidence section make more sense.
    Link to previous appeals for the same ban (if applicable):
    -
    Your appeal, including evidence (screenshots, etc). If you were in the wrong, explain what you did that was wrong, and describe how you have or will improve your behavior.
    I do not believe I was in the wrong, but I intend to stay away from pipes whenever possible, because they have been the cause for almost all of my bans in the past.
    Do you understand that making low-effort appeals (short/does not address the issue/shitposts) may lead to immediate denial and/or other types of consequences?
    Yes

  2. #2
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    I was the Captain during the round where this happened. I stumbled on this thread randomly and I want to say that he's a very interesting roleplayer. I quite enjoyed having him around as Command and if my opinion is of any relevance, he should be given an additional chance. I don't know if the clock actually crashed the server, I assumed it did and I mentioned in Discord that it did but I was not exactly sure what crashed it.

    That'll be all. Hope to see him around sometime he makes some crazy things as CE.

  3. #3
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    After having a brief discussion with Grimreaper on the CM discord, he offered me the chance to have some input on this appeal given I have played with Crimson_Imperator a lot over the years. I was told to specifically mention that Grimreaper granted me permission to post this, so please don't delete!

    I will keep this brief as I wasn't there for the round where this occurred and am largely uninvolved in the ban itself. Simply, I just wanted to provide something of an assurance in regards to Crimson_Imperator's persona. That is, he is one of the few people who has actually told me about tricks, mechanics and things I had either missed or had no idea about - and that is owing to his experimental playstyle, I think. I've never witnessed him do anything out of malice nor have I had anything but positive interactions with him in game. Also to note on the occasions I've been in rounds where he is testing some idea of his - he is always very open about talking about it. I've had numerous lengthy d-chat conversations with him about a variety of mechanic-based subjects.

    Without making the post too long to be appealing to read, I'll simply sum up in saying I very much doubt it was his intention to maliciously disrupt the round and if that did happen as a result of his actions - it was likely an unintended side effect rather than the ultimate goal. I'm a nobody here but I've been playing on the server a long time, just never ventured into the forums (and only recently onto the discord), though Nicholas Pershing is a character I've encountered many, many times and have rarely if ever seen him do anything that would be considered malicious on an OOC level. (Fragging benos doesn't count )

    If he did do wrong then obviously there's nothing I can say against that, and staff will enforce the rules irrespective of my opinion anyway. I just think that maybe permabanning him based on the assumption that he was maliciously attempting to sabotage the server may be a bit too far. Thanks for reading, and thanks to Grimreaper for giving me the opportunity to post here - as without his expressed permission I wouldn't have.

  4. #4
    Dev Team
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    I'll speak here in position of Sysadmin as we took the decision jointly with Grim due to exceptional circumstances and repeat behavior.

    I was really curious because I didn't think you were malicious and asked Moonshanks for more details about what you were trying to do... It all sounded confused, and still hard to believe.... but at the end of the day, the technical aspect is completely besides the point.

    The point is these are intently over-the-top acts, you knew it affected/tied in to server stability, it's been observed to cause issues in previous rounds, you've been told to stop several times, and yet, kept at it...

    And back then i argued maybe 2 weeks of ban timeout to think this over might be enough, but when I read this appeal, and see 5200 characters to justify irrelevant technical aspects, eluding context or intent, it's clear you missed the point wide...

    This is not a trial for the server crash, it's supposed to be an appeal for the ban resulting from your behavior. If the server staff tells you to stop doing something repeatedly, spending 30 minutes explaining why it's right then doing it anyway isn't exactly what's expected.

    I'm completely against revising this in current state, not just for the server, but also because for being in that kind of situation myself before, i can tell you need to take a break and step back...
    Last edited by Fira; 04-18-2022 at 10:23 PM.

  5. #5
    CM-SS13 Host ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    Management discussed this, and you're getting the benefit of the doubt, HOWEVER. Consider yourself on the radar if anything like this happens again, the permaban will be reissued. Even if your intent wasn't to "crash the server" if you know that doing something could potentially cause an issue with the server, don't do it.
    Unhinged retiree boomer man
    Get off my lawn you kids

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