Walling in corpses

[Chocolate_bickie]

It was sarcastic. This happened before, not only once, but also not on a grand scale. Occasionally benos would wall-off corpses, but it wasn't meta, because even Hivelord walls were pretty weak, so nobody spared any bullet to just shoot them. With fairly recent buff to structures, few extremely powergaming benos realised this as super dooper not metagaming and not powergaming strategy to replace corpse dragging.

Abusing mechanics is still power/metagaming. No matter the faction, no matter anything. As a Marine you can abuse the fact that racks can be placed instantly and trap crushers on prison after charge pretty reliably, but do so and if you will get ahelped, you will be bwoinked about "powergaming". It's not issue (yet) because it's not abused, it happens from time to time and if it would become a problem, it would be patched ASAP as it's something that is bad for benos.

Right now lack of corpse dragging means benos have to earn marine permadeath. Their hit-and-run tactic is only minor inconvenience for overall Marines, because those losses are recoverable. Benos have to advance, or defend that area, this brings them closer in comparsion to marines, who have to earn beno kill by dealing vast ammount of damage and not letting it escape. Walling off corpses is breaking this "balance" (very sensitive word for some benomains, almost like n-word), because this strips benos from that effort they have to give. Hivelord can spend literally less than 10 seconds to wall corpse off if in open field. Any wall shortens that time even more. Hivelords spamming wall in entire sections (most noticable in Big Red and Prison) and marines simply are not able to destroy every wall as it would slow them down to the point where recently dead beno would respawn and grow ancient before marines could clear entire way from LZ1 Big Red to ETA. Taking the fact into consideration that most marines don't take bayonets to their guns, that most marines don't bother with walls that aren't directly obscuring their way and that no marine cares to destroy those three tiles of wall in the corner, where most likely deffibable marine is hidden.

This could be solved mechanically, like walls changing their sprite if they are near corpse, but hey. Lets all be lazy bastards and allow benos to meta and powergame the hell out of the game. Also lets remove their "hivemind" chat and replace it with XOOC chat, since we "want" them to not have any RP standards. At the same time we have to force marines to the opposite.
That will be cool, right?

Earn perma-death? Perma-death is impossible unless you can push marines back for over 5 minutes, which is a long time when marines are rushing. A single medic can bring a dead marine upto 90% combat effectiveness after they die, it is so stupidly easy to revive a marine that killing them is barely worth it.

Most marines don't even act with any self-preservation because they know they can be revived and fighting again within 5 minutes. With IB and pain changes death is literally a slap on the wrist.

[juliansl]

Earn perma-death? Perma-death is impossible unless you can push marines back for over 5 minutes, which is a long time when marines are rushing. A single medic can bring a dead marine upto 90% combat effectiveness after they die, it is so stupidly easy to revive a marine that killing them is barely worth it.

Most marines don't even act with any self-preservation because they know they can be revived and fighting again within 5 minutes. With IB and pain changes death is literally a slap on the wrist.

It's almost like you're not supposed to be killing hosts.

[MasterShakeEZ]

It's almost like you're not supposed to be killing hosts.

its almost like they made capturing a fucking nightmare so there is no point. and its almost like even if you do capture them they just troll you in the nest. weird huh?

[MasterShakeEZ]

With IB and pain changes death is literally a slap on the wrist.

Yesterday I was dancer prae and I did the dance/tailstab combo on a marine and he literally chased me around and killed me with a shotgun cause pain literally does nothing. Even the "OP" dancer does nothing unless it instakills a marine.

Same round I also saw a pred in blinking red health not get any slow down at all.

[Chocolate_bickie]

It's almost like you're not supposed to be killing hosts.

Implying it's possible to capture marines. Even if you manage to stun a marine the only caste capable of detaining them without them buckshotting/nading/CAsing the hive is warrior. That means you need to dedicate maybe 2 warriors to every 3 captures. That's two tier 2s tied up managing captures. Good luck with that ever happening. And if you wanted to capture an entire squad instead of killing like you suggest then you would need about 10 warriors, otherwise known as ALL the tier 2s.

If mods want us to capture give us better capture tools, or make nests perma stun, otherwise it's just gonna be murderball + defib denying since that's the only way to win.

[CABAL]

Earn perma-death? Perma-death is impossible unless you can push marines back for over 5 minutes, which is a long time when marines are rushing. A single medic can bring a dead marine upto 90% combat effectiveness after they die, it is so stupidly easy to revive a marine that killing them is barely worth it.

Most marines don't even act with any self-preservation because they know they can be revived and fighting again within 5 minutes. With IB and pain changes death is literally a slap on the wrist.

Oh... And killing benos is soooooooooo easy, marines don't have to earn beno kill, right? They are faster than benos, they have more HP than benos, they literally do not slown down even a bit if hurt, they have more armor, they have dodge, they have aim assistance, they regenerate health on marine weeds, they can't be delimbed, or have internal bleeding, or raptured lungs... Oh, wait... It's the other way around.

How fast can three medics revive squad (20 marines)? In the ideal conditions that corpses are immediately dragged to them, stripped from armor etc. I would say it takes about 30 seconds to fully defib and treat a marine. 20/3 = 6.66 marines for one medic. 6.66 x 30 seconds = 200 seconds which is 3.3 minutes. That is 3.3 minutes where benos can heal back up and still have plenty of time to flank etc. If benos won't do anything with that, they couldn't secure a kill, their mistake, their fault.

You are acting like benos have 0 ways to counter marine attacks for 5 fricking minutes. Or that they can't harass medics.
Why most marines don't act with any self-preservation? Why they "know" that they will be revived and fighting again within 5 minutes? They know it because they know benos are pussies who can't hold one point for longer than minute, because they will immediately retreat to heal behind a rock, or wall if their HP reaches 50%.
Benos grow in strenght with every minute, marines lose it. Is this that hard to understand? That 30 seconds you bought benos by killing marine equals 30 seconds of medic's attention wasted on reviving and not healing those who are alive, with minor damage and in great pain. With that you earn marines another crippled and slowed down marine, who will lose his splint in one hit and if it was torso/head/groin, will die again without additional beno interaction. With that you make marines waste resources that are finite.

It is so stupidly hard to kill a beno that trying it is barerly worth it, if they could perma-kill marines easier.

Also, who forces benos to capture perfectly healthy marines? There is no benefit for doing that. Smart benos slash limbs few times etc. Even if it results in death in most cases, there is always a small % of hosts that will survive vs 0% of hosts that are killed on sight because benomain has to murderbone.

Come on, gAmE iS nOt AbOuT wInNiNg!!!!oneoneone11111! You don't have to perma kill marines, you don't have to win every round, what is the matter? The same arguments benos say to marines do not work other way?

Or... Just fucking screw this shit and masquerade, remove defib, remove marine reinforcements, remove everything from marines. "gAmE iS nOt AbOuT wInNiNg!!!!oneoneone11111!"
I have literally 0 patience now to explain the obvious. Ghost a bit more, look at marines and benos fighting and see for yourself how "hard" it is to secure perma-kill on marine and how "easy" it is to kill a beno that is not just a runner that pounces at everything.

[reuben owen]

before with corpse dragging xenos did things like pulling them all the way north on LV or in one of the cave lakes away from hive where marines never look, basically limiting the chance of encountering it to the first place to 0

if you die now, some marine at some point will at least have a chance to see your corpse, provided you weren't ramboing alone

now the corpse is behind a wall, ok

there couldve been anything behind that wall, an infected, an egg, another wall, nothing, the queen, an SSD xeno, the builder, some guy screaming for medic, a corpse, etc - marine has no way of knowing

if a marine sees a resin wall and doesn't want to break it open, thats on them

just because it was a corpse doesn't mean it was any more unfair than putting anything else behind a wall

anyway if a xeno wants to build anything and a corpse is there - they still have the right to build where they want and as much as they want (at least until other xenos yell at them for making 3thick doors)

[Troika]

If anything, I think dead marines should flatline after a bit. It's too easy to be revived from death around here.

[Twoscythe]

If anything, I think dead marines should flatline after a bit. It's too easy to be revived from death around here.

They do.

[Chocolate_bickie]

Oh... And killing benos is soooooooooo easy, marines don't have to earn beno kill, right? They are faster than benos, they have more HP than benos, they literally do not slown down even a bit if hurt, they have more armor, they have dodge, they have aim assistance, they regenerate health on marine weeds, they can't be delimbed, or have internal bleeding, or raptured lungs... Oh, wait... It's the other way around.

How fast can three medics revive squad (20 marines)? In the ideal conditions that corpses are immediately dragged to them, stripped from armor etc. I would say it takes about 30 seconds to fully defib and treat a marine. 20/3 = 6.66 marines for one medic. 6.66 x 30 seconds = 200 seconds which is 3.3 minutes. That is 3.3 minutes where benos can heal back up and still have plenty of time to flank etc. If benos won't do anything with that, they couldn't secure a kill, their mistake, their fault.

You are acting like benos have 0 ways to counter marine attacks for 5 fricking minutes. Or that they can't harass medics.
Why most marines don't act with any self-preservation? Why they "know" that they will be revived and fighting again within 5 minutes? They know it because they know benos are pussies who can't hold one point for longer than minute, because they will immediately retreat to heal behind a rock, or wall if their HP reaches 50%.
Benos grow in strenght with every minute, marines lose it. Is this that hard to understand? That 30 seconds you bought benos by killing marine equals 30 seconds of medic's attention wasted on reviving and not healing those who are alive, with minor damage and in great pain. With that you earn marines another crippled and slowed down marine, who will lose his splint in one hit and if it was torso/head/groin, will die again without additional beno interaction. With that you make marines waste resources that are finite.

It is so stupidly hard to kill a beno that trying it is barerly worth it, if they could perma-kill marines easier.

Also, who forces benos to capture perfectly healthy marines? There is no benefit for doing that. Smart benos slash limbs few times etc. Even if it results in death in most cases, there is always a small % of hosts that will survive vs 0% of hosts that are killed on sight because benomain has to murderbone.

Come on, gAmE iS nOt AbOuT wInNiNg!!!!oneoneone11111! You don't have to perma kill marines, you don't have to win every round, what is the matter? The same arguments benos say to marines do not work other way?

Or... Just fucking screw this shit and masquerade, remove defib, remove marine reinforcements, remove everything from marines. "gAmE iS nOt AbOuT wInNiNg!!!!oneoneone11111!"
I have literally 0 patience now to explain the obvious. Ghost a bit more, look at marines and benos fighting and see for yourself how "hard" it is to secure perma-kill on marine and how "easy" it is to kill a beno that is not just a runner that pounces at everything.

Marines don't get wiped out in groups of 20 though. They get killed in a slow trickle and revived so the actual number of dead marines is almost zero.

Xenos literally die like flies. I have seen a single marines stunlock xenos to death (not runners) using shotguns. Or nade spam them. Or dose up on chems before fighting. Pain practically dosent exist anymore unless you have broken chest, head and are on 5% health which is when is does something other than a very small slow down.

Also whilst it's slightly harder to kill a xeno than a marine marines have infinite defib reinforcements whilst xenos can't capture/contain captures thanks to nerfs. So marines can trade 2 PFCs to a xeno and come out with zero dead PFCs and one dead xeno. super op xenos pls nerf.

Xenos have to retreat because marine ranged attacks can take them from 50% health to 0 in a second. Oh and if you get close doesn't matter. Buckshot then shot to death. Manage to slash that marine 5 times? Dead. Because you can't stun due to nuero/tackle nerfs and pain dosen't exist anymore (practically) and that marine can out damage you with a SMG.

Xenos don't win every time. But they don't win as much as you say they do. 80% xeno winrate devs bias reee. no CABAL it's barely 50-50.

Stop exegerrating, I'm not saying remove defib, but you shouldn't be unaging on the front line 1 minute after getting defibed. And you shouldn't be getting defibed long after your death. Why don't you go play xeno and see how that one kill that took you 10 rounds to get because buckshot/mass shooting gets undone by one guy with a defib and 30 seconds on his hands. Then tell me xenos are op.