MP hate is a scam to lower RP standards - prove me wrong

[Roaven]

I don't hate MPs, but I can't say I really like them either. I've only been brigged I think once for a fist-fight (it was self-defense, and the other person didn't get brigged, but w/e, I got a short sentence for complying). Virtually every instance I've been accused or something though, it's been a matter of someone else's word against mine, whereas when I get assaulted or whatever, I can complain all I want, they won't do shit about it. And by that same metric, I'll confess that it does come down to my word, and obviously I could lie about it, but it just leaves me in a situation where in virtually every instance I'd rather just avoid MPs than ever interact with them.

[Outcast Seer]

Let me start this out by saying that I dont' hate MPs, but through a series of experiences I now instinctively associate them with trouble. Why? The simple reason being that my only significant RP interactions with MPs has been when they thought I needed to be arrested, or were looking to arrest someone. I have never encountered an MP either as a marine or as a ship-side role that has ever struck up a conversation with me that didn't involve 1) Accusing me of crime; 2) Questioning me to find out if I had committed a crime; or 3) Whether I had witnessed a crime/seen a criminal.

I have never gotten a chance to small-talk with an MP, nor have I ever had a chance to relate with an MP IC. There seems to be an unspoken rule among MP players that any interaction with other players MUST be at arms-length. This effectively dehumanizes MPs to me and limits my expectations of their behavior to those that arrest or question me.

Now, let me make this clear: I have been put in brig less times than the fingers on my hand. This isn't because I'm a goodie-two-shoes boot-lick, nor that I have meta-friends who are MP mains. Instead I get enough enjoyment out of RPing with by squadies or doing a support role and chilling that I don't really feel the need to get a kick out of doing stuff that could get me arrested. So of the times that I have been arrested, only one was unquestionably valid (when I was doing questionable experiments with live xenos as a CL). So when I am under threat of being arrested, it is usually because the MP in question is looking for an excuse to arrest me. To put it another way: my only interaction with MPs are with those that are looking for the tenuous excuse they can find to arrest me, and if the CMP doesn't put that MP in their place for petty arrests, I am likely given the most time that said MP believes they can justify if confronted by a bwoink.

In a way, it genuinely is the fault of normal MPs that they do so little to compensate for the shittiness of the actual bad apples. Normally I wouldn't blame the "innocent" for the actions of the guilty, but in this case MP mains need to realize that they are shooting themselves in the foot in terms of reputation. Its not hard to act friendly IC, even if you are security. So to help, here are some things I do on TG as a security guard that gets people to not instantly fling an accusation of "shitcurity" at me:

(1) Emote - Emoting, especially in a friendly manner does a lot. Most players recognize that a player who emotes often in a meaningful way are there to RP. That helps soften an interaction since it also signals you are willing to RP things more, and not instantly meta-accusing an unga for doing something that is technically illegal.

(2) Take off the Shades - Seriously, the red glasses just ooze "I exist to make you miserable." Yes, you need them to see markers and not get blinded, but you should still take them off when talking with someone. The easiest workaround is to put them in your hand as you approach and begin talking with someone, and quickly put them back on if people pass by so you can check their markers. You would be surprised what kind of effect this has on interaction with fellow players.

(3) Quickly Establish Your Intent - Realize that the unga you are chatting with is silently holding his breath trying to figure out whether you are trying to trick them into admitting a crime. If you sense that this source of tension exists, or might have reason to exist, eliminate it. Make sure they understand you aren't talking with them as part of your duties.

(4) Never Assume Malice where Ignorance is Plausible - This means warn people that they have behaved criminally and give them the opportunity to stop. Unless what they are doing is extremely egregious, just tell them what they are doing is wrong and that if they do it again there will be trouble. You do not have to and should not have to arrest someone for every single crime. If you think a warning isnt enough, then do an NJP. They exist for a reason you know? You have the tools to improve how people percieve you, use them.

[Jackson T. Murphy]

I don't hate MPs, but I can't say I really like them either. I've only been brigged I think once for a fist-fight (it was self-defense, and the other person didn't get brigged, but w/e, I got a short sentence for complying). Virtually every instance I've been accused or something though, it's been a matter of someone else's word against mine, whereas when I get assaulted or whatever, I can complain all I want, they won't do shit about it. And by that same metric, I'll confess that it does come down to my word, and obviously I could lie about it, but it just leaves me in a situation where in virtually every instance I'd rather just avoid MPs than ever interact with them.

I have been brigged only 1 time, and it was my third round ever, when the CO said something to the effect of "OK, lets see how many marines CAN we kill this time" (back in Unexpected Contact days) and i mention out loud that "The captain has gone insane." I get called on the mat for it, and since i was new, i had my rifle in my hands as i was loading the GL and attaching things ( I KNOW BETTER NOW! BAD IDEA IN BRIEF!), so I get subdued for having a weapon out in briefing and pointed at the captain. I get brigged for 15 minutes, because I complied with the MPs, and then they walked me through what i did to get brigged. no hostility from them AT ALL. I proceeded to have one of the best RP rounds I have ever had in a game (I love when Dan Dickers is my SL), and that's the round that 'hooked' me on CM.

I have had it where, yes, I broke into the alpha req while as a bravo to grab stuff on the floor, and the MP's proceed to figure out that it was someone with red hair (Guilty as charged). i got off with a warning and reminder about proper procedure. the only other interaction i have had with an MP was when there had been an active shooter on the Almayer, and the MP's were trying to find a murder weapon. They asked me to get off the DS, told me they needed to cuff me and search me (to which i complied), then told me WHY I needed to be cuffed and searched. they were professional about it, and when they found nothin on me, they uncuffed me, help me put my stuff back on and got me back on the DS. I honestly don't understand the HATE for the MPs by the troops in Delta, or why people like Antoni needs to pick a fight with the MP's in briefing EVERY TIME he is playing. Do you guys hate cops and police IRL too? If you want to play a chaotic character, for pete's sake, be more subtle/classy/IC about it, not just yell "FUCK DA MPs!" and start a throwdown at the hoedown in briefing or in the DS.

[RaddishRed]

Let me start this out by saying that I dont' hate MPs, but through a series of experiences I now instinctively associate them with trouble. Why? The simple reason being that my only significant RP interactions with MPs has been when they thought I needed to be arrested, or were looking to arrest someone. I have never encountered an MP either as a marine or as a ship-side role that has ever struck up a conversation with me that didn't involve 1) Accusing me of crime; 2) Questioning me to find out if I had committed a crime; or 3) Whether I had witnessed a crime/seen a criminal.

I have never gotten a chance to small-talk with an MP, nor have I ever had a chance to relate with an MP IC. There seems to be an unspoken rule among MP players that any interaction with other players MUST be at arms-length. This effectively dehumanizes MPs to me and limits my expectations of their behavior to those that arrest or question me.

Just on this point, when I play MP or CMP I usually just don't have time to chitchat because the vast majority of the rounds I play something is always happening, whether because the captain gave some !!!FUN!!! order or I'm investigating a report of a crime or a MP being shit. I'd love to RP more but even when I'm not busy most marines just don't want to talk, they wanna deploy and play TDM.

On another point, please god please please devs add some investigation tools ASAP, the last ones were shit and got removed but now we got NOTHING to investigate with. I started wearing a recorder on me just to have some proof if there's a special occasion calling for it.

[CABAL]

Arguing with Cabal is pointless, he will omit things, ignore your arguments and move goalposts constantly. I wouldn't waste time if I were you.

This bullshit really starts to get on my nerve. IT DOES NOT MATTER FOR WHAT REASON I WAS MAINLY ARRESTED. I agree with Ressisting Arrest and Damage to Goverment property. FPP was just taken out of the ass of MP who reads SOP too much and wanted to dick me out for ressisting arrest, because they "felt" 15 minutes would be not enough for marine who dared to escape after breaking into Squad Req and taking attachements that were clearly very valuable and important, lying around on the ground.

Theft was considered to be added after I was already in cell, so this only proves that MP gang tried to powertrip a marine.

Good to know you know my post that much:

... Then I got arrested for Damage to goverment property (but that didn't matter in this case), but then MP tried to invent whole lot of bullshit charges. FPP for wearing PO helmet, theft of a PO helmet...

Omit this you Benomain.

[alexpkeaton]

I've actually drawn a lot from this thread, especially the comments about what riles folks up about dealing with MPs. I do want to be a better MP/CMP and one that is at least tolerable, if not enjoyable, to play with.

I've seen FFP come up a few times. Like I said, I don't charge it. And it's at the top of my list for "things I would change about marine law." That said, 5-10 minutes won't ruin your day (unless you allow it to), what ruins your day is when you feel that your interpretation of the law is better than the MPs and you find that sufficient justification to bolt. Then it's on you when you get tossed into a cell for longer. And, conveniently, it's at this point when sentencing times immediately become relevant to the point of ahelping your victimhood. Come on. This is a prime example of what I hate most about being an MP. I get being baited into bad situations ICly but I often feel there's an attempt to bait MPs into a bad situation OOCly.

And I'm sorry, but I need to rant about that. The classic example of OOC gaslighting of MPs is the "Delta brig breakout mini-mutiny" they default to when you make an arrest of one of their own before 12:20. I'll ignore for now the part where staff sits on their hands and watches while two MPs try to defend against 15 Deltas swarming the brig. (It's happened more than once, that's not meant for dramatic effect here.) In the midst of this chaos I've gotten pinged for procedure. Seriously? You have a bunch of marines blatantly breaking Rule 2, on the border of Rules 3 and 4, and yet those Deltas feel they are the victims here to ahelp because I'm trying to flash people and cuff them while their fellows try to drag the others away. I'm lucky as an MP to bag two marines this way, meanwhile I'm getting pinged for "why are you permabrigging that marine?" Seriously? First of all, zoom to me please where you can clearly see that marine is now being broken out while I deal with the ping. Second, how the hell does the marine's player think they are somehow in a situation where the only OOC violation committed was done by the MP? That's the baiting I have a real problem with. The OOC gaslighting. It's incredibly hard to be 100% accurate on procedure when chaos is going on around you. All it takes is one misstep and boom "Got a moment?" That's not okay.

Oh and at round-end that's when those same players fill up dchat and OOC about "did you see that shit MP who brigged me for 45 minutes for assault?" "Holy shit MPs are nazis!" "Burn all MPs ROFL." "Fuck the police!" "CMP is shit he denied my appeal, all I was doing was standing in the brig but he called it jailbreak." "They tased me wordlessly inside the brig and called it jailbreak, we were staging a peaceful protest!"

Peaceful protest... "BRO IT'S A PRANK IT'S A PRANK... IT'S A SOCIAL EXPERIMENT!"

It's gaslighting and it should be treated as the Rule 3 break it is.

[Rals]

Reasons I hate mps is that they are mostly lazy and mostly vindictive.

Several examples:

The first was as a synthetic unit, where I passed out top hats. The MPs immediately began powertripping arresting anyone on sight wearing a hat. This nearly lead to a riot and munity as most of deltas special units were arrested. After the CO showed up he ordered them to stop before a munity took place and to release anyone who was arrested for top hat crimes. The delta sg, upon being released, put their hat back on and was immediately re arrested as "you were pardoned for the previous crime. This is a new one". Cue another near riot. When the CO intervened again, the player then whitelist reported the captain. I was also threatened with arrest for passing them out. They could have been cool at any point and flat out refused to.

You are, however, missing important facts. From your words it seems, that marines were arrested on sight without a warning, which is false. They were given at least two warnings before arrests and I would like to say, that two PFCs complied with MP and took hats off, while third PFC literally said "No, arrest me". Only ONE PFC (I don't even think he was a Delta) was arrested for wearing top hat and I was going to give him only five minutes. He would, most likely, deploy in time. And after being pardoned and told again "Get a proper headwear" this PFC goes on Alamo and is trying to deploy.

CO was whitelisted reported for one reason: she did not know, how pardons worked, which is a bad thing for CO. I do not remember any threats to arrest you, MPs were considering adding warning for FFP to your record at most.



Was it added Cabal? No, it was not. Why was not it added? Because there were no evidences, you stole it. Oh God, MPs investigated possible crime, they are powertripping so much! I do not see, why marine cannot be arrested or punished for breaking a law. If you would not break in Bravo REQ, I would give you only warning for FFP. And I will repeat myself again, you, instead of waiting for possibly more lenient MP, instead of asking REQ to open up, decided to break in Bravo REQ and then run away.



NJPs are not used that much, because if marine commited crime and was NJP'ed, it is more likely, that he will commit same crime again.



Edit: Oh. I forgot to add. I am quite sure, that is someone is sieging brig and moderator is asking you to explain your actions, you can ask Moderator to wait for a minute, while you are dealing with Delta.

[Musely]

I've actually drawn a lot from this thread, especially the comments about what riles folks up about dealing with MPs. I do want to be a better MP/CMP and one that is at least tolerable, if not enjoyable, to play with.

I've seen FFP come up a few times. Like I said, I don't charge it. And it's at the top of my list for "things I would change about marine law." That said, 5-10 minutes won't ruin your day (unless you allow it to), what ruins your day is when you feel that your interpretation of the law is better than the MPs and you find that sufficient justification to bolt. Then it's on you when you get tossed into a cell for longer. And, conveniently, it's at this point when sentencing times immediately become relevant to the point of ahelping your victimhood. Come on. This is a prime example of what I hate most about being an MP. I get being baited into bad situations ICly but I often feel there's an attempt to bait MPs into a bad situation OOCly.

And I'm sorry, but I need to rant about that. The classic example of OOC gaslighting of MPs is the "Delta brig breakout mini-mutiny" they default to when you make an arrest of one of their own before 12:20. I'll ignore for now the part where staff sits on their hands and watches while two MPs try to defend against 15 Deltas swarming the brig. (It's happened more than once, that's not meant for dramatic effect here.) In the midst of this chaos I've gotten pinged for procedure. Seriously? You have a bunch of marines blatantly breaking Rule 2, on the border of Rules 3 and 4, and yet those Deltas feel they are the victims here to ahelp because I'm trying to flash people and cuff them while their fellows try to drag the others away. I'm lucky as an MP to bag two marines this way, meanwhile I'm getting pinged for "why are you permabrigging that marine?" Seriously? First of all, zoom to me please where you can clearly see that marine is now being broken out while I deal with the ping. Second, how the hell does the marine's player think they are somehow in a situation where the only OOC violation committed was done by the MP? That's the baiting I have a real problem with. The OOC gaslighting. It's incredibly hard to be 100% accurate on procedure when chaos is going on around you. All it takes is one misstep and boom "Got a moment?" That's not okay.

Oh and at round-end that's when those same players fill up dchat and OOC about "did you see that shit MP who brigged me for 45 minutes for assault?" "Holy shit MPs are nazis!" "Burn all MPs ROFL." "Fuck the police!" "CMP is shit he denied my appeal, all I was doing was standing in the brig but he called it jailbreak." "They tased me wordlessly inside the brig and called it jailbreak, we were staging a peaceful protest!"

Peaceful protest... "BRO IT'S A PRANK IT'S A PRANK... IT'S A SOCIAL EXPERIMENT!"

It's gaslighting and it should be treated as the Rule 3 break it is.

nailed it. the gaslighting and bwoink-spam points are very accurate and probably related. being arrested for assault usually means ahelping to say you did nothing wrong, the MP doesn’t know the law, is meta-targetting and has harmbaton’d you. you spend 5 mins pointing out their bullshit to an admin and you’re given the all clear but the person trying desperately to get you banned by making shit up receives no warning or note and will do it again on their next arrest.

[RobBrown4PM]

The op is not wrong.

[solidfury7]

I've actually drawn a lot from this thread, especially the comments about what riles folks up about dealing with MPs. I do want to be a better MP/CMP and one that is at least tolerable, if not enjoyable, to play with.

I've seen FFP come up a few times. Like I said, I don't charge it. And it's at the top of my list for "things I would change about marine law." That said, 5-10 minutes won't ruin your day (unless you allow it to), what ruins your day is when you feel that your interpretation of the law is better than the MPs and you find that sufficient justification to bolt. Then it's on you when you get tossed into a cell for longer. And, conveniently, it's at this point when sentencing times immediately become relevant to the point of ahelping your victimhood. Come on. This is a prime example of what I hate most about being an MP. I get being baited into bad situations ICly but I often feel there's an attempt to bait MPs into a bad situation OOCly.

And I'm sorry, but I need to rant about that. The classic example of OOC gaslighting of MPs is the "Delta brig breakout mini-mutiny" they default to when you make an arrest of one of their own before 12:20. I'll ignore for now the part where staff sits on their hands and watches while two MPs try to defend against 15 Deltas swarming the brig. (It's happened more than once, that's not meant for dramatic effect here.) In the midst of this chaos I've gotten pinged for procedure. Seriously? You have a bunch of marines blatantly breaking Rule 2, on the border of Rules 3 and 4, and yet those Deltas feel they are the victims here to ahelp because I'm trying to flash people and cuff them while their fellows try to drag the others away. I'm lucky as an MP to bag two marines this way, meanwhile I'm getting pinged for "why are you permabrigging that marine?" Seriously? First of all, zoom to me please where you can clearly see that marine is now being broken out while I deal with the ping. Second, how the hell does the marine's player think they are somehow in a situation where the only OOC violation committed was done by the MP? That's the baiting I have a real problem with. The OOC gaslighting. It's incredibly hard to be 100% accurate on procedure when chaos is going on around you. All it takes is one misstep and boom "Got a moment?" That's not okay.

Oh and at round-end that's when those same players fill up dchat and OOC about "did you see that shit MP who brigged me for 45 minutes for assault?" "Holy shit MPs are nazis!" "Burn all MPs ROFL." "Fuck the police!" "CMP is shit he denied my appeal, all I was doing was standing in the brig but he called it jailbreak." "They tased me wordlessly inside the brig and called it jailbreak, we were staging a peaceful protest!"

Peaceful protest... "BRO IT'S A PRANK IT'S A PRANK... IT'S A SOCIAL EXPERIMENT!"

It's gaslighting and it should be treated as the Rule 3 break it is.

This is so accurate I'm tempted to add it to my signature.

You can be handling arrests solo, and you can admins boinking you for the most minor violations in protocol, (such as forgetting to take cuffs off prisoners due to the handcuff sprite bug)

The most infuriating thing about it is, these situations are often caused by admins failing to act during the big brawls, but suddenly start asking about every arrest, every appeal. While you're dealing with another prisoner. This THEN causes you to fall behind on handling prisoners because you're now handling appeals, prisoners, relying to command and other MPsand now typing up shit to admins. This then causes you to slip up more.

I will say that some admins and mods are very good with handling marine law ahelps, and are very patient and understanding in these situations. Others are literally so unfamiliar with the MP role and marine law, I have to LITERALLY correct them in ahelps. Which is always a worrying sign when you have someone enforcing something they don't understand (rule of thumb, always have marine law open, if complicated and even the best of us slip up)

Oh and Marines who arrested usually turn a 5 min time in to 40 minutes by doing dumb shit such as insulting CO or punching MPs