So the current winrate...

[xenofood]

Buckshot isn't even overpowered, it is simply the only usable weapon.

And there we are at the actual core of the problem. As a PFC main I tried a lot of different weapons available to me and after 60 rounds, the best I could settle on was M41A to tickle xenos from afar, and a buckshot on my back to deal actual damage if an opportunity arises.

[NoahKirchner]

I define the front line as "The place that marines and xenos are going to get within CQC range/one screen away from one another"
So crushers, ravagers, praetorians, warriors, defenders, etc. are all your front line, with the boiler right behind the front line. It is similar for marines, with the front line being where most of the marines are on offense, or the cade line they are behind on defense. Squad leaders, medics, specs, and sometimes engineers are usually inbetween the front and back lines.
In your example image above, the caves east of containers and north of sand temple is usually a front line. It is a terrible one for marines, but they go there anyway.

How often do you see xenos flank containers? LV usually has 3-5 main entrances as well as tunnels that the xenos can flank with. I have seen a number of marine pushes on the east caves crushed between boiler neuro spam and a handful of good xenos coming from the central, central-west, or far west t-fort and inflatable fort areas. Fire support is only good when xenos are either stationary at choke points or on the offensive, due to the vast majority of areas xenos will fight in being CAS-proof.

Yes, it is risky to do a flank, but it's also fun and engaging for both sides. It's an 'oh shit' moment until one side manages to overtake the other with it. Both sides have decent tools for flanking, but xenos are MUCH better at it due to the speed they can move from one area to another, and the few numbers needed to hold a chokepoint.

When I said front line xeno, I meant a xeno that can brawl and doesnt run in and immediately dip, xenos that can spearhead a push without Queen support. Originally that was the crusher, but the crusher can now be easily PB'd to death. I see xenos flank around containers pretty frequently from the north and west, but then the marine horde mobs them with shotguns. I see lurkers, runners, warriors and spitters hit marines from the southeast of containers.

I agree that flanks are fun and engaging, but for xenos to properly pull off a flank they need the Queen to prevent the flank from getting PB'd to death, as without cover to run back into marines can and will chase down the xenos until they are all dead.

[Just L]

The queen isn't necessary for a flank. Have a drone or hivelord up on the front to make resin structures.

[xenofood]

Here's a really stupid idea I just thought of.

How about we change both shotguns and M41As as well as how xeno armor works.

Shotguns keep their buckshot damage, but xeno armor will make them useless against anything except T1s + some higher tiers that are not meant to have armor, like Boiler. Everything else, buckshot does zilch.

Slugs keep their stun/daze as it is and remain a support-only weapon, meant to stun some xenos so your marine buddies can mow it down.

Then we change the M41A standard ammo to be as it should be, explosive-tip and have it be less useful against unarmored targets, but more useful against anything that buckshot isn't. Of course the damage output won't be enough for a single marine to just murder everything with it, but 3+ focusing fire on a single target (and actually hitting it) might.

In theory, you would have less buckshot on the front lines because they aren't as useful there and more on the sidelines/flanks, hunting cocky runners/lurkers to their heart's content. Meanwhile on the front line, marines with M41As will not be mowing anything down, but they will be making an impact on the battle.

Of course, this is just a quick idea I had at random, so feel absolutely free to explain to me how bad of an idea it is, but do me a favor and think about it. Maybe you can improve it.

[NoahKirchner]

The queen isn't necessary for a flank. Have a drone or hivelord up on the front to make resin structures.

Resin structures A. Take a decent amount of plasma and time to make enough of, too much time to make a fallback point for a flank and B. Can be easily destroyed by marines, making them useless for actual cover.

[Just L]

Have you seen how fast a hivelord can spam resin structures, Noah? It's also tedious for marines to destroy resin, unless you want to waste CAS or mortar shots on it.

[MasterShakeEZ]

make marines only beable to carry 1 gun and then all of them can have shotguns and they can 1 shot everything. Then the castes that are ranged will dunk the shotgunners. The problem with all this arguing is you act like marines can only take a shotgun when they can take 2 different weapons and all be medics at the same time. Marines are better at CQC and have versatility. Xenos are super specialized and so some castes get completely countered by shotguns (which ever marine has) while others are good against shotguns but marines have more than 1 weapon so they can fight those castes too. Make marines only able to carry 1 weapon and then they wont beable to counter every fucking thing in the game and will actually require teamwork.

Now if you dont want to do that, then make shotguns not the king of CQC and quit bitching.

[MasterShakeEZ]

If it was up to me I would split pfc into a bunch of different roles like xenos are. It would give your loadout when you get your role and thats all the equipment you can use. You can then tweak that equipment with attachments like current. So you could be a rifleman and get some kind of m41 or you could be a cqc fighter and get a shotgun, you could be a heavy weapon dude and get something like a hpr. but you wouldnt beable to use the other weapons/gear. That way devs could balance each role like they do xeno castes instead of trying to balance an endless combo of stuff you can pick. This would also allow them to buff each weapon because the marine would only be good at their one role and have counters from other xenos. It would force the marines to work more as a fire team and less of a horde of angry ungas.

[Jackson T. Murphy]

Here's a really stupid idea I just thought of.

How about we change both shotguns and M41As as well as how xeno armor works.

Shotguns keep their buckshot damage, but xeno armor will make them useless against anything except T1s + some higher tiers that are not meant to have armor, like Boiler. Everything else, buckshot does zilch.

Slugs keep their stun/daze as it is and remain a support-only weapon, meant to stun some xenos so your marine buddies can mow it down.

Then we change the M41A standard ammo to be as it should be, explosive-tip and have it be less useful against unarmored targets, but more useful against anything that buckshot isn't. Of course the damage output won't be enough for a single marine to just murder everything with it, but 3+ focusing fire on a single target (and actually hitting it) might.

In theory, you would have less buckshot on the front lines because they aren't as useful there and more on the sidelines/flanks, hunting cocky runners/lurkers to their heart's content. Meanwhile on the front line, marines with M41As will not be mowing anything down, but they will be making an impact on the battle.

Of course, this is just a quick idea I had at random, so feel absolutely free to explain to me how bad of an idea it is, but do me a favor and think about it. Maybe you can improve it.

This, this sounds like it has some promise... i think i want to expand on this idea in my own post later.

If it was up to me I would split pfc into a bunch of different roles like xenos are. It would give your loadout when you get your role and thats all the equipment you can use. You can then tweak that equipment with attachments like current. So you could be a rifleman and get some kind of m41 or you could be a cqc fighter and get a shotgun, you could be a heavy weapon dude and get something like a hpr. but you wouldnt beable to use the other weapons/gear. That way devs could balance each role like they do xeno castes instead of trying to balance an endless combo of stuff you can pick. This would also allow them to buff each weapon because the marine would only be good at their one role and have counters from other xenos. It would force the marines to work more as a fire team and less of a horde of angry ungas.

Going back to a Class type think is good, but i would adjust so that if you lost your primary weapon ( idiot-throw it by tapping R at the wrong time, got revived away from where you died/hard-critted at, etc...), you can still USE the other weapons, but a significant downgrade in effectiveness... And make pistols equal use, as they are the ACTUAL sidearms that should be backups.

[Just L]

Also, xenos just got a massive buff that makes them have ancient t2s and t3s by around 12:45, so that throws any and all balance out the window since xenos now just stat check marines no matter what.