New CO restrictions are absolute bull

[CABAL]

What's the point of this change? Was there an issue with deploying COs?

Its simple. Half-assed duct-taped "solution" that creates two new, bigger problems, while in theory "fixing" one issue. Its classic, seen it countless times, one of the recent would be cat laws.

Leaf man cries that RP is low, Leaf man blames Whitelists, because they are supposed to be held to a "higher standard" of RP. Leaf man doesn't like gimmicks that current CO's have. Native American CO wanting scalps = LRP. Nazi Gestapo SS CO = HRP. Leaf man cries, makes a thread. Admemes read it, hold some kind of a value to leaf man's opinion, so they try to apply bandaid without much thought. Just so happens that deploying COs is the scape goat here. As previously mentioned, CO can do shitty brieffing, give meta orders and fuck off to R&R, or Chapel, or whatever not in CIC and "RP" there, totally having commanding far deep in his ainis.

For staffmemes and leaf man its fine, its cool, its not LRP and no matter that it either fucks marines if CIC staff is lacking, or it doesn't matter when the CIC is filled and CO is absent from actuall commanding, since his orders and shit has the same power from shipside as a PFC would have, nothing gained, nothing lost.
Staffmemes as much as they don't simply play, or watch the game, have barerly any idea what happens. The proof of it is simply right here, you have staffmeme literally saying that marines drop 70% of time at 12:30, when that fucking never happens, unless there happened MAJOR roundstart shenanigans with mutiny included atleast. Either it was bullshit that he came up and thought its accurate, or he made some kind of a survery that people treated as meme and most of them jokingly said "12:30 is when we usually first drop". No other explenation.

Situations repeat themselfs. The same was with furball Jones the CO's cat. The issue was that marines kill that useless mob. What was the solution to the problem? Not allowing CO to take his cat from his office? No. Making the cat immortal? Heh, you bet... And you lose. The solution was to give the cat FUCKING HUMAN RIGHTS which means that killing said cat equals killing a marine in the eye of marine law. ARES that is ship's AI, controls EVERYTHING on the ship, most importantly it steers the ship, you won't fly anywhere without it. Destroying, or attempting to destroy said AI is a LESSER CRIME than killing, or attempting to kill a cat. For killing a cat you can be executed. For kiling AI you cannot.
See the pattern? Some half-legitemate issue arises. Somebody cries, somebody complains. Staff that rarerly plays listen to this and then comes with the most half-assed solution it can, creating new problems. Would be it shocking news that cat killing wasn't eliminated, or even severly reduced thanks to that?

If questioned, if confronted with sheer stupidty of their decisions, they respond with "It's not democracy" meme, laughing, while they all obey whims of a single person, this time being a feweh saying that the germany ain't the same as it used to be, that the germany wasn't treated right in the last few years, that he found the opressor that causes so much suffering to the germany, that we must fight the opressor, because the alternative is to surrender to a commies.
Germany being a methaphor for server and its RP, commies for TDM/LRP, staff for simple, common german people and feweh... Well... Easy to guess which famous painter is supposed to be represented here and it ain't Bob Ross.

[Sir Lordington]

So I missed most of the drama due to being on holiday but are you seriously suggesting Feweh somehow controls CM from the shadows and Head Staff kowtow to his will?

Oh-kay... That's some tinfoil tier conspiracy right there.

[Me_Bigsnail]

In the words of triio: The best we, as devs, can do in the face of directly damage gameplay for an abstracted benefit of "better RP" (which mind you will demolish our credibility we a development team since directly harmful design decisions to build a more accommodating roleplay environment is a fools errand and draws the ire of people who enjoy bare bones gameplay) is to build the versimiltitude of the environment with decent visuals, writing, and setting.

It's up to you, and your fellow players to engage with the environment presented before you. I, and no Dev, cannot stab the player bases hand to the wall and scream "Now roleplay you clowns!"

(Do note the quote above has been said in #Commanding-Center a.k.a a public chat for CO WLs in discord.)

CIC is little to not useful, orders? Who gives a shit people will just meta their way through the map, leadership is more than dead because it depends on people being incomepetent (herd, a.k.a jarheads) and competent people (pastors a.k.a leader roles like SL or CO) but when everyone knows every single drip of information no one will bother in listening, because whats the point of paying attention to the CO or SL about their tsun zu tier plan when you know where the hive is located?

And dont get me started on RP being forced on game mechanics, its baffable that certain people have been enjoying and playing this game for so long and expect dev team to tie the community hands and begin to shank them with annoying mechanics and ask them 'are you enjoying your rp son?' RP should be player driven, not mechanic driven, and CO is more or less caught in an odd spot where its EXPECTED (read not forced) to RP in a server where RP will be a side concern for most players, you want to RP then go to the CL make out some inconherent rumour about how they beat his wife midway a private conference and begin to blackmail him so he doesnt lose his job and you get free money in exchange of your own silence.

Unless you find it LRP which then people will just migrate to a no RP mindset to avoid troubles with staff (no offense directed to them, they just do their job)

(My own opinion, not the dev's opinion if anyone wonders)

[CABAL]

So I missed most of the drama due to being on holiday but are you seriously suggesting Feweh somehow controls CM from the shadows and Head Staff kowtow to his will?

Oh-kay... That's some tinfoil tier conspiracy right there.

No, nobody suggests that he controls anything. I'm suggesting that higher ups take his opinions on the game a little bit too eager. Is it coincidence that CO restriction just so happened in two weeks after feweh made a forum thread about RP not being enforced anymore and focusing fair chunk of it to shit on Whitelists (Mainly COs) for being LRP, while blaming players, only blaming menagement for being "too soft" on implementing such stuff, like its a bunch of saints?

We keep complaining about LRP and bad enforcements for like year now and little to nothing is being done, then comes the old guard and suddently old dried shit changes into shit and puke, because its quite obvious that this decision wasn't thought trough, simillary to cat laws.

I can only imagine and I suspect that in the next month more shitty "RP" changes will be introduced. Am I wrong?

Stop solely showing the players in bad light for LRP, look at the events and then say without remorse, that nothing but high quality RP comes from the people in charge. Thats the leaf man stance, to really blame only the players as irredeemable.

[RobBrown4PM]

SNIP

I am not sure what this is supposed to be, but it's glorious.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

There’s no conspiracy behind any of this. We’ve had numerous complaints about CO WL going to a low standard, and people in general memeing the role.

I’m not talking about the gimmicks, I’m talking about the stuff like calling marines gamer/Retard in command announcements. Deploying immediately and dying, Pajama CO, etc...

It was suggested to bring back timelocks and remove whitelists for CO/Synth in the upper levels. I was not fully for it, or fully against it, so I told the CO council they should have a fair chance to try and change it.

This is what they decided on, and a bunch of people chimped out.

[Aidenzack1]

I’m going to quickly state my reasons for why I dislike the changes to CO. From what I’ve heard from the community of COs (note this is only from word of mouth, and from a few COs, so take it with a minor grain of salt) is its forcing COs to be the same cookiecutter CO every round, this is a bad thing because diversity is what makes having a unique CO round fun, I’ve enjoyed being SO for people like windhealer due to his interesting plans and strategy, and how he speaks and acted makes me chuckle. Secondly, I believe the deployment change is also a bad idea, due to the fact that if a CO deploys they can get a much more direct view of the entire battlefield, instead of having to assess it based off a few marine helmet cameras (which usually the SOs only get to use.) and word of mouth, and having your commander make very crucial decisions based off of a game of telephone is in my eyes, a very bad idea. And I’m not saying CO should go full Rambo and be a supermarine, I mean stay off to the sidelines in a fight and be making announcements and communicating with CIC.

EDIT: Please keep in mind that this is just my views from experience, and also keep in mind that I am in fact not WL'd for CO.

[Dreven]

So I missed most of the drama due to being on holiday but are you seriously suggesting Feweh somehow controls CM from the shadows and Head Staff kowtow to his will?

Oh-kay... That's some tinfoil tier conspiracy right there.

Well yknow if it wasn't for fewehs string pulling we would still have v-word in the community..

I hold firm by the fact that the average ground CO did his job to a superior level than the average CIC CO. CIC CO's, including some commodores are prone to this trap of "roleplay over play" where they would spend more time RPing with MP's or spouting pre-written text blocks to actually do their job, leading to really simple messups like unannounced OB's, failing to call out a Queen location or doing it 5 minutes after the fact, or not even listening to squad comms. The average ground CO might die occasionally yes (it didn't happen nearly as much as council and staff make it out to be, for example with myself I can count 1 round out of literally dozens in the last month where I died early), but you sure as hell knew that they were gonna announce OB's because they were usually the one spotting them, the ground CO had to listen to squad comms because he was effectively a SL for all 4 squads. Being a ground CO was far more micro and macro intensive, as you had to both coordinate squads in the minute while still maintaining the bigger picture. And thats why I and others enjoyed it so much, frankly being a CIC CO is too fucking easy, and theirs nothing for you to do that can really effect the round. Objectively marines will just follow the blue star around more, and as your deployed you start to build up a reputation more with the PFC players, so they in turn listen to your tactics more, I could pull off more crazy flanks and non meta fob strats than I ever could from CIC, and it was rare to me that I'd see a "HRP realistic officer" type CO ever try something that wasn't the "safe" meta. Not to mention it basically us deployed CO's who GAVE the XO a real job to do, a filler role thats basically just a SO+ or a personal assisstant monkey to the CO, would be given purpose when a CO deployed, as they would run logistics, tacmaps and shipside matters while the CO called the shots from the ground and relayed what was happening, both XO and CO were made important and HAD to work in tandem with eachover to do well, it was a really fun dynamic that I believe (from XO players who have talked to me) lead to more players actually trying command roles and enjoying them as they had some responsibility. The meme of the "PFC+" CO simply didn't happen, its a fabrication from a very few bad egg players during some rounds that should have just been enforced on those players like ANYTHING ELSE WOULD, in the exact same way that staff fabricated that "boxing games before briefing delay the drop" and tried to ban uus from doing boxing matches, they are making a problem from nothing so they can stomp down on things they don't like in the game but the majority of players do.

Where the hypocrisy comes is that its never seriously been punished to just be one of these RP CO's who effectively wastes their roll by doing nothing of effect in the round, I even brought it up to council awhile ago and was basically ignored, they made one announcement about it that never lead to any serious enforcement because you have players in their own ranks who play exactly like that, putting their personal roleplay over that of the entire marine experience. These kinds of actions are completely ignored and even rewarded with positions of commodore and glowing reviews of "this is what it means to be high roleplay", and I believe is what contributed so much to this culture of "command means nothing and marines don't listen anyway", because when you have an officer like that in command they do mean nothing, their an active detriment on the marine side and why would anyone even listen to them. I used to see CO's complain all the time that "muh delta squad wont listen to any orders I hate them", yet they never had any kind of experience/reputation as a SL player or they weren't even an active communicator on comms, they would tell delta once over command comms to pull off some flank 5 minutes after delta had already pushed the frontline, then complained for the next 10 minutes that delta wasn't listening. Not to toot my own horn but im the example I know of best because I am me, but I could routinely get delta to hold a flank position behind the frontline for an hour, then have them strike at the exact right time to spearhead into the side of the hive and win the round, and I would do it by deploying, talking with them on the ground, communicating why it was important that this flank worked, etc etc. Or I could use the example of Juro who convinced not one, but two squads to stay shipside to deploy at LZ2 right as the nexus was under attack, then sweeping in from the rear and destroying the xenos. If a deployed CO made the slightest fuck-up he would get berated by council and staff, leading to stupid and awkward to follow rules like "you can't gear up before briefing, you can't wait in the hanger for the Alamo to pick you up 2nd drop" (yes those were real rules that soldier enforced on council), but if a CIC CO did absolutely nothing of use for a round, then no one would care or he'd even get praised as a "a good roleplay commander".

So instead of improving the CIC to actually add mechanics and features for CO's to use, while also keeping the deployment style of COing alive, they just axed the latter while doing nothing about the cancer growing within the former, shooting down some of this games most active CO players and making it even more railroaded. Expect CM rounds to become even more stale and same-y from here on out.

[CABAL]

There’s no conspiracy behind any of this. We’ve had numerous complaints about CO WL going to a low standard, and people in general memeing the role.

I’m not talking about the gimmicks, I’m talking about the stuff like calling marines gamer/Retard in command announcements. Deploying immediately and dying, Pajama CO, etc...

There are complaints about COs WL having a low standard, so we restrict them from doing anything mildly interesting, forcing them into one "yer military man" stereotype, not allowing them to deploy earlier if they deem so necessary with more aggresive approach.

How that really solves the issue of calling marines gamer/retard in announcements? Does it really solve the issue of Pajama COs? No doubt that any CO made a habbit of deploying in pajamas. Do you think it really solves the issue of COs deploying and dying? Also, how is that an issue? Instead of deploying with first, or second drop, they won't deploy at all, because round are decided now before 13:00. Its either Marine Major at this point, searching for that last drone, runner and two lurkers, or DS is already hijacked, waiting at LZ. Instead of solving the issue, it simply removed chunk of the COs gameplay. This is when he is needed, that time between 12:30 and 13:00 where many games are now ending. What bullshit mechanic, or rule will stop COs from deploying after 13:00 and dying immediately? Nothing. Was that an issue that CO died? I don't think so, he took the risk, he died. Its not like CO is nothing but PFC+, he has super good orders, so he actively helps marines.

So really...
> People complain about COs taking the risk and deploying early and that they are behaving LRP
> Make COs boring, dull, restrict them from deplying till after the fun has ended, severly hamper their ability for interesting role play
> No complains about LRP, when COs become the same copy of 0RP cutout
> ???
> Profit?

If only there was other way... If only... If only somebody... I know, ridiculous idea comming right next, be ready... If... If on... If onl... If only... If only somebody really hold COs accountable for what they are doing and judging individuals, instead of punishing everyone? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't WL Council of Beetroot and admemes themselfs were responsible for "overwatching" COs? Where was the Council of Beetroot when Pajama COs happened? Why there was no report, why there was no bwoinks, why there was nothing? Where was the Council of Beetroot when gamer/Retard words showed up in Announcements? Why there was no report, why there was no bwoinks, why there was nothing? Where was the Council of Beetroot when certain COs deployed immediately and simply die not so long after? Why there was no report, why there was no bwoinks, why there was nothing?

The whole issue would be solved and avoided if only those whose duty was to oversee and punish LRP COs would do their job. I see this as Council of Beetroot suddently wake up with hand in a potty to then come up with quick, but stupid bandaid idea, diverting the blame on someone else. Yeah, its those bad players who say Gamer and Retard, its those bad players who deployed early and died, those are the real mean bastards here, they were all using the fact that there is no Council, that there is no higher ups, that there is nothing but Anarchy, so they abused CO by doing stupid shit, there was no one to stop them, they were doing anything without any sort of punishment like WL revoke... Right?

[Rayleonard]

There has been few almost no times when I have seen a CO deploy where it hasn’t, regardless if the CO dies early, where it has not worked to the marines positive favor. I say RP can be shipside and ground side. Rallying behind the SL/SO groundside? Business as usual. CO is ground side? Generally helps marines focus about as well as the Queen does for Xenos. Putting restrictions is only going to be for the detriment of this community. Especially when Xeno Queens have announced just as stupid ‘LRP’ global messages themselves. If the CO wants to coordinate from above and never deploy? Fine. If he wants to lead from front and let XO/SOs handle it. Fine. Let the SOs deploy instead if you are staying shipside. Marines need those order buffs. Otherwise get rid of them off the shipside roles if they aren’t going to be using it. Shipside xeno siege ain’t good enough for that either. Make it to where the CO stays at the FOB first and coordinates that and can go to the front when needed. But for the sake of LRP restrict them on deploying? That’s just a pipe dream indoctrinated for you to think it’s a solution when not a single person takes that seriously. Even the ones that do tons of paragraphs only do it because that’s at the start they don’t do it the remainder of their time playing the round. Keep pushing away all your unique people and soon you’ll just have the same old same old and no one will find anything unique about this server.