Predator Rework

[Swagile]

i feel the issue is two fold and similar to marines in a way

preds either have really shitty weapons (im looking at you, old glaive) or really fucking OP weapons (clan sword). LPC (really shitty) and HPC (really fucking OP, especially against marines). their armor (alright) and their cloak (pretty fucking OP), no traps (ok), drop trap (pretty fucking OP cause it disables xeno abilities and makes you slow as fuck, and makes marines in general slow and stuns them).

there's no middle ground so no one ever wants to fight a xeno 1 v 1 because preds never pick their shitty weapons as even a boot knife marine naked can beat their shitty weapons, but their OP weapons can kill entire squads if done right, so marines either ignore preds or chase after them in full squad strength (delta squad moments)

the other problem is that predator has been buffed because it is a ROLEPLAY faction; predators haven't gotten their strength because of their ability to hunt, they got it because Predators are the CL on steroids. while the CL is protected by OOC rules so he doesn't get shot by marines unless there is a very good IC reason, Predators can be shot at for any reason, so they got buffed accordingly so they can survive marine and xeno encounters. but they ARE NOT a ROLEPLAY FACTION; their role is to hunt and kill shit, they are the hidden 3rd faction

this is why ive proposed so many times to remove all the rules on predators but in return nerf them accordingly (aka HPC with very high cool down or limited shots similar to SADAR, LPC on moderate cooldown with charge packs similar to HPC, cloak reverting from long cloak to short cloak like scout cloak, keep armor the same, keep stuns, reduce some of their passive healing / heal crystal strength, just as a start)

but this has been denied constantly either by devs (understandable, no one wants to work on predator code cause, from what i remember being told, it sucks) and the predator faction leads / players ("WE ARE A ROLEPLAY FACTION!!!!!!")

to the latter i say, no. you are not a roleplay faction. the CL does more roleplay in a day than the predator does in a month. the predator faction has always been a OP TDM faction hidden behind roleplay rules because no one wanted to code a better way to make them not a TDM faction, so instead the players are chained behind roleplay rules; much like old metagame rulings were there not because the server was high RP but because coders didn't know how to code in a solution to the problem

tl;dr preds are a TDM faction not a RP faction, remove their rules and adjust their stats / abilities accordingly so they can truly be fleshed out as the TDM faction they were meant to be

[Steelpoint]

I do think it'd be worth moving the faction towards making it a true 3rd faction and to nerf Predators accordingly. I think that would generate better gameplay, you'd have Predators who can give their genuine all effort without them being OP.

[themaskedman2]

One of my old suggestions was to completely remove all restrictions on Preds and honor code, but just entirely nerf them insanely. Stop with the weird restrictions and half-metas from every side, salt, OP-ness, and so on. Just make them another enemy that can do what it wants to try and kill people, and can also be killed.

[CABAL]

One of my old suggestions was to completely remove all restrictions on Preds and honor code, but just entirely nerf them insanely. Stop with the weird restrictions and half-metas from every side, salt, OP-ness, and so on. Just make them another enemy that can do what it wants to try and kill people, and can also be killed.

This won't work because benos are stronger than marines in any way (and in comparsion to preds even in numbers). This would end up in preds running away from benos and targetting marines, since this would be the only prey that doesn't see trough walls, is always slower than you, each point of damage slows it even more, can be delimbed, posses weak spots in armor, can't heal fast etc.
Even at current state of Preds, take away their Traps/HPC/LPC/Stun Melee and they struggle to beat Elder Runner and Elder Defender teaming up. Any nerf will demolish pred vs beno encounters.

Benos also doesn't gain anything from fighting preds, so on top of that they don't want to fight preds either. We have a state where they both have a reason to not fight eachother and they both have a reason to fight marines.

Gameplay as it is now does not allow any viable third faction outside maybe WY Death Squad. Death Squad and Death Squad alone is the only faction that is closest to be evenly matched against marines and benos. UPP Commandos, or standard UPP, or CLF, or Freelancers, or Zombies, or Dutch Dozen, or Beta Hives, or whatever are always leaning towards fighting marines thanks to the inherit Quirks benos posses in order to quench benobiased winrate and some egoistical belief that benos are supposed to be this group with less numbers, thus stronger individualy (it's like creating an Ant with all Ant's quirks, but making it better at everything and less numerous. Not much of an Adventage the "Hivemind" provides here).

When thinking about any (rule-less) Predator rework we have to think mainly about benos, then marines, then try to fit them there. How to make preds to be equally as powerfull against polar opposites? It's practically impossible.

[Cakey]

could be as simple as giving them plenty of slashing armor and a lower piercing armor so that both factions are equally as damaging to preds

[CABAL]

could be as simple as giving them plenty of slashing armor and a lower piercing armor so that both factions are equally as damaging to preds

I bet my whole note history that this would result in:
a) Beno Salt. (Benos would encounter creature that might be evenly matched against them and this always makes benos cry acid tears, acid will melt the floor venting whole planet)
b) Pred Salt. (Preds dying to fewer bullets while they already go down after 3 Cuckshot PB's)
c) Marines still weaker than benos against preds.
d) Preds still targeting marines (since preds can escape them, marines don't have anything simillar to purple resin, marines slow down accordingly to damage and pain, they don't see in darkness and trough walls, etc).
e) Benos still not having any reason to fight preds.
f) Robust packs of marines targeting preds and avoiding benos (since even currently it's easier to kill Pred 1vs1 if this is honorable hunt, than it is to kill Ancient Runner, or Elder Lurker)
g) Opportunistic tactics emplyed by both fast benos and preds.

Solves one problem, creates and amplifies another.

[Heckenshutze]

At this rate the only two solutions I see is to keep them the way they are (a complete nuisance with random good moments of gameplay) or perform Apop�s long gone desire: complete removal of yautja and change it for something else.

[Alfred-Rattling-Reach]

My whole experience with preds have been:

Randomly jumping a PFC standing guard at FOB (The standing guard is an event to remember by itself)
Yoinking a Spec mid firefight against benos.
A quite unusual moment of teamwork with two runners and the entirety of Alpha sandwiching a pred as it had been busy doing pred things.
ABSOLUTLY WRECKING AND REALLY SHOWING OFF ALL THE "I Win" BUTTONS PREDS HAVE by slaughtering a random engie that had welder out and goggles on to fix a cade.
Picking up a PO unloading crates into FOB and cutting the shit out of them (PO was me btw)
Murderizing a synth/doctor doing field surgery.

And Preds wonder why they are utterly despised and wished removed/Seriously reworked.
Its literally just one big "I Win" role atm
You can suck up bullets
Move faster than even a runner at times.
Have weapons that cause IB and fractures, if not death instantly
And a free "Fuck you" by self detonating in the middle of a group of marines.

SALT

[Swagile]

Buffing them to be good against both sides is the trickiest because of how CM development works.

Development is based on nerfing/buffing against the most skilled members on the Marine side, and nerfing/buffing against the worst members of the xenomorph team. You'd somehow have to make preds in the middle of that, or just a bit stronger than that.

Predators:

- Are whitelisted
- Limited amount (1-6 of them)
- Only happen due to RNG or Admin involvement (Predator round if the server feels like it)
- Cannot respawn

Hence they'd have to be middle strength; basically, they'd have to be a Lurker on steroids. Strong enough to take on half a marine squad but still sustain injuries, and strong enough to wound or even kill a T2 but have to seriously invest into the kill. You'd also have to give them non-lethal crowd control (think HPC blast but shorter stun time and much lower damage) so that it can escape from a horde of xenos T1 and T2's trying to gang him, or a marine squad trying to follow them into a dead end.

They should also have things that fix their broken limbs, IB, etc. but in return its SLOW ACTING, so you actually have to teleport out and wait for it to fix. Maybe take 5-10 minutes maximum, but enough so that you think before you rush head long into a group of marines / xenos and think you can take them.

And also severely tone down the SD; the SD should be C4 levels of explosion. Enough to stun and maybe hurt anything around, but not enough to do massive structural damage or kill anything unless it was already about to die. This disincentive's shitty plays where a Predator does more in the round SDing than they do actually doing their job and hunting.

It'd be a very delicate tight rope that the Predator faction would be on development wise, so the real question is:

Is it worth all that effort for a third faction? Remember, devs will have to do all of the effort above on top of working with shitty predator code.

[Chocolate_bickie]

Predator SD needs nerfing. Players shouldn't be punished for beating predators. Yes the SD should exist but as Swagile said, it should be C4 levels of explosive. Marines and xenos shouldn't be getting half there health knocked off by an off-screen explosion.

Predator SD is to stop their gear being taken if they get beaten. It shouldn't be a punishment tool a predator can pull out whenever they get salty that marines/aliens dog piled them.

Predators have other tools for crowd control and avoiding getting outnumbered, not least of which is cloaking and fleeing.