Surv Death Meta Returns

[CABAL]

door shocking, db shooting, time management, making the judgement call to kill yourself, figuring out whether its time to bail or keep defending, finding other survivors

Marines can shock doors too. Gotta be a spec, SL, or proper engineer, but they can.
(I assume db means double-barrel) Marines can find that shotgun and use it.
Marines also have to menage their time, but I fail to understand how it is a "tool" survivors are supposed to have and marines don't. The more time passes, the less of a chance marines get to win. Less obvious since maturity rework, but still.
Marines also have to make a judgement call to kill themselfs, how it is any different?
Do marines don't have to figure out when it is time to run, or keep defending? Always if they aren't in FoB, but even in FoB, somebody gotta make that EVAC call.
How finding other survivors is a tool?

Survivors don't have much different "tools" than a marine. The gameplay is nearly exactly the same. Small group of marines behind enemy lines with one SL/engineer among them is literally the survivor gameplay, but they also can call Mortar/OB/CAS, have a radio contact with other rines and don't have endurance. Literally it, nothing else, almost 1 to 1 copy. One is a human, other is a human, rest is details. PFC vs Warrior is in the same situation as Survivor vs Warrior and so on and so forth.

[chimpychimp]

Lately xenos struggle to get 20 players at round start on a 170 pop game. Then you get 5 survivor mains running around the map, who are all robust, know the map, know where to go, and are able to meet up near instantly. Its often the same players round after round, you know who you are. Then they are running around with gear comparable or better than the vanilla Pfc, incend rounds, decent shotguns and one round a guy was on ultrazine or something, literally outrunning runners (almost). Xenos have no chance, because they only outnumber them 4 to 1 theoretically, and in reality not all of those are combat castes.

Doesn't happen every round, but it sucks when it does because you know xenos are not going to recover and the round is only 15 minutes in - because survivors are piling runner corpses high and taking out weeds / drones. The last round I played had two survivors kill the queen as marines pushed, they flanked alone through the north caves on Lv. If the xenos are highly co-ordinated and robust enough, they might pin down the survs and be rewarded with MAYBE 1 cap, but probably not because everyone will suicide when they know the jig is up.

Hence the new meta of "Don't hunt survs, its not worth it"

It is what it is.

[ObsidianCrow]

Lately xenos struggle to get 20 players at round start on a 170 pop game. Then you get 5 survivor mains running around the map, who are all robust, know the map, know where to go, and are able to meet up near instantly. Its often the same players round after round, you know who you are. Then they are running around with gear comparable or better than the vanilla Pfc, incend rounds, decent shotguns and one round a guy was on ultrazine or something, literally outrunning runners (almost). Xenos have no chance, because they only outnumber them 4 to 1 theoretically, and in reality not all of those are combat castes.

Doesn't happen every round, but it sucks when it does because you know xenos are not going to recover and the round is only 15 minutes in - because survivors are piling runner corpses high and taking out weeds / drones. The last round I played had two survivors kill the queen as marines pushed, they flanked alone through the north caves on Lv. If the xenos are highly co-ordinated and robust enough, they might pin down the survs and be rewarded with MAYBE 1 cap, but probably not because everyone will suicide when they know the jig is up.

Hence the new meta of "Don't hunt survs, its not worth it"

It is what it is.

I do think the cap got lifted a little too high, I think it should be 1/4 smaller. I like the idea of nerfing survs in some ways but giving them more numbers but i think they have a few too many now. takes away from intensity and makes camping way way too strong

[Usnpeepoo]

I think removing incin slugs would solve every issue with survivors since it is pretty much the only reason most new xenos die/drones get killed

[MrDadMan]

Removing incen slugs would be a death sentence for survivors. Survivors already got balanced. We are extremely weak against physical attacks. Every issue you all have here is literally called skill issue because good players make good use of the tools they were given and you all can't cope with that fact. Survivors aren't FRONTLINING roles, you come after THEM. If you lose because you decided to do that, that should be an issue of you, not survivors. I play survivor a lot and I've played even more time as xeno and I have to admit that both sides are difficult, but 90% of the player base can't even land a PB for the life of them. And it isn't a matter of good players abusing their tools, because then lurkers and warriors would be the issue for their pounce stun and across-screen lunge. Survivors are SURVIVORS. They survive. Their entire purpose is to be annoyances against xenos. They aren't there for free caps. Survivors don't even rush areas that have been built up by xenos because it's 3 slashes/3 acid splashes to crit. And again, xenos aren't obligated to go after survivors neither. You don't see it every day that survivors change the flow of the game simply because they made good decisions and team work. Those are pretty essential for basic survival. I'm even in a group of people who love to play survivor and all of us need high amounts of experience to play against the onslaught of xenos and survive. So for the love of God, leave it alone. Survivors lost their endurance to become basically pokable to death with the exchange for extra numbers. Extra numbers means a higher need of cooperation and teamwork. So to put it simply... you dying to survivors is your fault.

[TheFlyingFlail]

Hello Everyone!

Pal here A.K.A Survivor dev. Im here to inform you about why the numbers change for survivors took place. I'll link bellow the MR that did it for reference. In short survivor spawn rtio was basically flawed in its methodology of allocating adequate spawn ratio because it didn't calculate for several factors.

1.) Around 10-15 Players don't receive desired roles per round
2.) Survivor Spawn Ratio Average varies from 1/25 to 1/40 after 1min round start
3.) Survivor tend to have slightly higher than normal spawn percentage round start but is quickly lost 1min into the round as people late join for both Xenos and marines giving us the true spawn ratio
4.) There are about 30-40 players who do not ready at the round start
5.) The current survivor spawn ratio anticipates that everyone gets their desired roles and readies up which is not the case
6.) The current Survivor Spawn ratio does not account for late joins for both marine and xenos
7.) With the current spawn ratio set (1/20 [ 8 survivors per 160 players) taking into account the factors above survivors appear to only receive 50% of the desired amount of survivors
8.) Late join player spawns tend to level out past the 12:20 mark which is the true round population


Introduction To MR

I did this because recently the population calculation backend was updated as of recently which adjusted the point value of certain roles and how roles, in general, were counted prior to round initiating. Some role values (human) stayed the same while others counted as half. One point value that did not get adjusted or compensated was the survivor which still uses the old 1/20 rate.

Problem With Current Calculations

As a result of the MR not addressing survivors, this meant that survivors are now spawning with 2 survivors. This coupled with the fact that most players don't start at the round start (due to selecting highly valued and limited roles) the count is reduced further. This MR seeks to rectify it and revert it to its intended value.

Addressing The Problem

In readjusting the population to its intended count survivors obviously benefit from this with added people especially when you consider the endurance nerf and the rise of bone brokes which can effectively cripple players instantly rendering them ineffective. More players increase the chances of survival slightly assuming they have proper teamwork and are not swarmed. Xenos benefits from it as it adds an extra challenge on the colony and the potential for more captures for larva assuming they capture them all. I would like for a test merge if possible to see how this plays out as these numbers should be subject to scrutiny and change as needed.

[TheFlyingFlail]

Lately xenos struggle to get 20 players at round start on a 170 pop game. Then you get 5 survivor mains running around the map, who are all robust, know the map, know where to go, and are able to meet up near instantly. Its often the same players round after round, you know who you are. Then they are running around with gear comparable or better than the vanilla Pfc, incend rounds, decent shotguns and one round a guy was on ultrazine or something, literally outrunning runners (almost). Xenos have no chance, because they only outnumber them 4 to 1 theoretically, and in reality not all of those are combat castes.

Doesn't happen every round, but it sucks when it does because you know xenos are not going to recover and the round is only 15 minutes in - because survivors are piling runner corpses high and taking out weeds / drones. The last round I played had two survivors kill the queen as marines pushed, they flanked alone through the north caves on Lv. If the xenos are highly co-ordinated and robust enough, they might pin down the survs and be rewarded with MAYBE 1 cap, but probably not because everyone will suicide when they know the jig is up.

Hence the new meta of "Don't hunt survs, its not worth it"

It is what it is.

To say survivors is a farce. Survivors do not spawn with a consistent loadout. Everything is random down to the weapon and equipment they receive. Survivor do not get 25min of uninterrupted time to equiped what the need and source gear from requisitions. Everything they get Is from the colony which i would like to remind you is randomized with few exceptions. I would highly recommend looking at the code and map files for a better point of reference. You should also remember xenos are larva rushing and rushing survivor meta spots like medical and armory at round start disrupting survivor flow and forcing them to go on the offensive to survive. Ive seen a runner pack demolish survivors by the 5min mark. It ain't fun dying 5min the round and having to wait an hour or longer to play again.

" Xenos have no chance, because they only outnumber them 4 to 1 theoretically, and in reality not all of those are combat castes."

4/1 against survivors is such a huge advantage. If you can get a lone survivor like that then its easy pickings. If you die to a survivor with 4/1 advantage id say its more of a skill issue. Hunt in packs. Remember that most people the main survivor are really good and rarely do new people stick around lock enough to get better because of how demanding the role is. Heck T3s and queens are now hunting survivors.


side note: looks like a burner account to me that responded so,.............

[ObsidianCrow]

Hello Everyone!

Pal here A.K.A Survivor dev. Im here to inform you about why the numbers change for survivors took place. I'll link bellow the MR that did it for reference. In short survivor spawn rtio was basically flawed in its methodology of allocating adequate spawn ratio because it didn't calculate for several factors.

1.) Around 10-15 Players don't receive desired roles per round
2.) Survivor Spawn Ratio Average varies from 1/25 to 1/40 after 1min round start
3.) Survivor tend to have slightly higher than normal spawn percentage round start but is quickly lost 1min into the round as people late join for both Xenos and marines giving us the true spawn ratio
4.) There are about 30-40 players who do not ready at the round start
5.) The current survivor spawn ratio anticipates that everyone gets their desired roles and readies up which is not the case
6.) The current Survivor Spawn ratio does not account for late joins for both marine and xenos
7.) With the current spawn ratio set (1/20 [ 8 survivors per 160 players) taking into account the factors above survivors appear to only receive 50% of the desired amount of survivors
8.) Late join player spawns tend to level out past the 12:20 mark which is the true round population


Introduction To MR

I did this because recently the population calculation backend was updated as of recently which adjusted the point value of certain roles and how roles, in general, were counted prior to round initiating. Some role values (human) stayed the same while others counted as half. One point value that did not get adjusted or compensated was the survivor which still uses the old 1/20 rate.

Problem With Current Calculations

As a result of the MR not addressing survivors, this meant that survivors are now spawning with 2 survivors. This coupled with the fact that most players don't start at the round start (due to selecting highly valued and limited roles) the count is reduced further. This MR seeks to rectify it and revert it to its intended value.

Addressing The Problem

In readjusting the population to its intended count survivors obviously benefit from this with added people especially when you consider the endurance nerf and the rise of bone brokes which can effectively cripple players instantly rendering them ineffective. More players increase the chances of survival slightly assuming they have proper teamwork and are not swarmed. Xenos benefits from it as it adds an extra challenge on the colony and the potential for more captures for larva assuming they capture them all. I would like for a test merge if possible to see how this plays out as these numbers should be subject to scrutiny and change as needed.

damn based and stat pilled. what i suggested was already being implemented cool

[ObsidianCrow]

Lately xenos struggle to get 20 players at round start on a 170 pop game. Then you get 5 survivor mains running around the map, who are all robust, know the map, know where to go, and are able to meet up near instantly. Its often the same players round after round, you know who you are. Then they are running around with gear comparable or better than the vanilla Pfc, incend rounds, decent shotguns and one round a guy was on ultrazine or something, literally outrunning runners (almost). Xenos have no chance, because they only outnumber them 4 to 1 theoretically, and in reality not all of those are combat castes.

my brother in christ you respawn in 2 minutes if you die to survs chill

[c4xmaniac]

Marines can shock doors too. Gotta be a spec, SL, or proper engineer, but they can.
(I assume db means double-barrel) Marines can find that shotgun and use it.
Marines also have to menage their time, but I fail to understand how it is a "tool" survivors are supposed to have and marines don't. The more time passes, the less of a chance marines get to win. Less obvious since maturity rework, but still.

Survivors don't have much different "tools" than a marine. The gameplay is nearly exactly the same.

It's not, if you played survivor instead of you'd know marine gameplay and survivor gameplay is different.

Lately xenos struggle to get 20 players at round start on a 170 pop game. Then you get 5 survivor mains running around the map, who are all robust, know the map, know where to go, and are able to meet up near instantly. Its often the same players round after round, you know who you are. Then they are running around with gear comparable or better than the vanilla Pfc, incend rounds, decent shotguns and one round a guy was on ultrazine or something, literally outrunning runners (almost). Xenos have no chance, because they only outnumber them 4 to 1 theoretically, and in reality not all of those are combat castes.

Doesn't happen every round, but it sucks when it does because you know xenos are not going to recover and the round is only 15 minutes in - because survivors are piling runner corpses high and taking out weeds / drones. The last round I played had two survivors kill the queen as marines pushed, they flanked alone through the north caves on Lv. If the xenos are highly co-ordinated and robust enough, they might pin down the survs and be rewarded with MAYBE 1 cap, but probably not because everyone will suicide when they know the jig is up.

Hence the new meta of "Don't hunt survs, its not worth it"

It is what it is.

Play survivor

I think removing incin slugs would solve every issue with survivors since it is pretty much the only reason most new xenos die/drones get killed

Incen slugs are good for stopping the queen from queen healing and setting xenos on a timer before they have to back off. The only time they're exceptionally powerful is when you're trying to 1v1 the survivor since it takes one-two pats to put the incen slug out.

Here is a video of me using them, key thing here is that none of the xenos i hit die to the slugs, instead it buys me breathing room.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDrLLMyFP80

Additionally you get one box of incen slugs unless you get a dogshit spawn like the cabin spawn in the video I linked, and incen slugs don't have a guarantee to ignite xenos either. Removing incenslugs will not actually make a huge difference because, like you said, the only xenos who die to the burn damage are bald xenos who would die immediately after marines land anyways.